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Post by debutante on Apr 20, 2014 18:39:44 GMT -5
Happy Easter to our believers!
Happy Spring to our skeptics!
--Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 20, 2014 18:44:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 19:24:09 GMT -5
Happy Easter to you, too, Deb!
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Post by raybar on Apr 20, 2014 21:48:42 GMT -5
Even skeptics and atheists can enjoy Easter. We are just about cleaned up from our annual Easter party and have the house almost back to normal. About 35 guests this year, without a single mention of Jesus or Ishtar, as far as I know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 22:18:34 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone here reads the Sunday Funnies, but anyway on LUANN, she was telling her friend that when she was little Easter was her favorite holiday because she loved the egg hunt and the candy. And then when she got older she liked Chlristmas better because she got lots of presents and two weeks off school. And now she likes Halloween best of all because dressing up and going to awesome parties is more fun than finding Easter eggs or opening a bunch of lame Christmas gifts.
And her friend asked, Have you ever thought of the REAL purpose of those holidays? And Luann answered, You mean the boost to the economy?
I'm sure that Deb means it in the other REAL purpose way. I guess that's the way it is here as long as the REAL members of this board allows us NON-REAL members to post here.
But I do think what makes FACTS still interesting is that in spite of our very few members, we together keep it interesting and going. So whatever, Ishtar, Easter, Party Time--Happy....
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Post by tricia on Apr 20, 2014 22:35:15 GMT -5
In reading this, I feel like it insinuates that it was switched to a religious/Jesus holiday because someone who believed in that said so and that it's not truly the day Jesus rose from the dead. Is that what this means? Because if it's true...it couldn't mean much else.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 23:16:26 GMT -5
I think he went to Ishtar services, so don't expect him back anytime soon.
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Post by tricia on Apr 20, 2014 23:35:53 GMT -5
I think he went to Ishtar services, so don't expect him back anytime soon. lol.. Yeah, I can totally see that happening.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 20, 2014 23:41:49 GMT -5
The day Jesus rose from the dead? Are you serious??
Anyway, of course Easter - or Ishtar - was a pagan holiday long before Christianity arrived on the scene. In fact all the main "Christian" holidays - Christmas, Hallowe'en etc - are pagan festivals that have been "comandeered" by the Catholic church.
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Post by tricia on Apr 20, 2014 23:47:30 GMT -5
The day Jesus rose from the dead? Are you serious?? Oh..haha...no, I was just joking....OF COURSE I'm serious...that's what you're supposed to be celebrating on Easter, isn't it? Anyway, of course Easter - or Ishtar - was a pagan holiday long before Christianity arrived on the scene. In fact all the main "Christian" holidays - Christmas, Hallowe'en etc - are pagan festivals that have been "comandeered" by the Catholic church. So then all of the religious holidays are just made up? Like holidays that existed already and then got jacked by Christians? Makes me kinda sad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 23:53:39 GMT -5
So what is your point exactly? That half of us members that post regularly are are total idiots? You want to bring your own intellictual atheists friends here so that it will be active enough that us idiots can leave? Before you came here, a Happy Easter or a Merry Christmas was just either accepted or ignored. It appears now that you's rather just argue this and be anotomcially correct and lose us who don't appreciate this. I've tried to laugh out of this, but you insist on digging in. This is no more a totally skeptic board. If you'd rather take it over and make it the way you want, then do it!
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 20, 2014 23:56:53 GMT -5
I posted the message below on my Facebook page earlier. I should preface it by pointing out that In ireland, the Catholic church has a monopoly on education. In other words all the schools in the country (except one that was opened recently) are ran by the clergy. I went to a De La Salle Christian Brothers school (which was found guilty at a tribunal just a few years ago of torturing - yes, torturing - the students who attended it).
***
Easter always reminds me of Brother Stanislaus who beat me up for pointing out a glaring discrepancy in the Easter myth. According to the official Catholic cathechism: "Christ rose from the dead, glorious and immortal, on Easter Sunday, the third day after His death." So Stanislaus (we called him Santyclaus) is telling us that Jesus died on Friday (hence "Good Friday") and was resurrected on Easter Sunday. I put up my hand and pointed out that Friday to Sunday was only two days. And I knew by his face (because he looked confused and then he kind of sputtered) that this had never occurred to him. Anyway I got a belt of a wooden duster and six of the best for being insolent (or, as I see it, for being able to think for myself and refusing to swallow a load of superstitious cobblers).
So, for the record:
According to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus prophesied that he would arise from the grave on the third day (Matthew 17:23; Mark 9:31; Luke 9:22). More specifically, after “three days and three nights” (Matthew 12:40). But, as I said, according to the official Catholic teaching: "Christ rose from the dead, glorious and immortal, on Easter Sunday, the third day after His death."
So, a slight discrepancy there, but one that Catholics don't seem to have noticed. For me it's a great example of a belief that's so deeply entrenched, no one ever questions it.
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Post by tricia on Apr 21, 2014 0:02:40 GMT -5
Actually, I questioned that very thing just today. Then I thought...well, maybe they're counting Friday as day 1.
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Post by tricia on Apr 21, 2014 0:08:25 GMT -5
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 0:42:55 GMT -5
All four gospels state that Jesus was crucified on a Friday (Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42; Luke23:54; John 19:42) And... um... 72 hours is three days. From Friday to Sunday is 48 hours. (Where did you say you worked - in a bank was it? No counting involved, I hope?)
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 0:45:33 GMT -5
@lily - I was under the impression that was the Forum for Active Critical Thinking and Skepticism.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 1:03:44 GMT -5
@lily - I was under the impression that was the Forum for Active Critical Thinking and Skepticism. It is. That's why I've been questioning you. If you think that some scriptures in the Bible makes one a believer or not, then you aren't as smart as you think you are. There are many believers who never even had a chance to read any Bible. A person like you can't even imagine why. And do I care? Yes, I do, the same way I care about anybody who attacks anyone for the simple reason that they don't think the same way that that person thinks. And that is the way it is about any kind of belief. Yes, in spite of how I feel negatively about how you attack some of us, well, that's your privilege. If you think it will change our minds rather than change our feelings about you and similar, well, I know that's how you and yours want it. So. guess what? We know your agenda, and when really thinking about it. we just won't go along with it. Sure, it initially gets our back up, but then we think about how and why. And we get it together. No matter what you say.
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Post by debutante on Apr 21, 2014 1:31:58 GMT -5
@lily - I was under the impression that was the Forum for Active Critical Thinking and Skepticism. Dear Zak: Go eat a chocolate bunny or a marshmallow peep. Either should make you feel better. You had your Brother Stanislaus and I had my Sister Rosilda -- so I can see how the thought of anything religious can be a tad irritating for you. But for those who wish to celebrate today (religious or secular reasons) --such issues that you've raised aren't at the top of the priority list. Really, I do understand your objections, but I also question why you had to bring it up today. Why not let people have a Happy Holiday? Look, I decided long ago that I wasn't going to blame God because Sister Rosilda was a few fries short of a Happy Meal. I have probably as much (if not more) of a reason to feel ill-used by the Catholic church than you. Thing is -- carrying such a burden of charged memories doesn't make a person happy. Do you think Rosilda remembered what she'd done once the day passed? Do you think your Brother Stanislaus ponders what he did to you that long ago day? NO!!! Both of them (if still alive) are probably torturing a new group of children and don't think of either of us AT ALL. So why are you letting Brother Stanislaus color your viewpoints to the extent that you can't enjoy a holiday? Don't you have any happy memories of this season? Getting a plushie bunny? Having an Easter egg hunt? Visiting your grandparents for a family feast? Regardless of whatever religious connotations the day has -- it is also a time for family/friends togetherness. Enjoy the day for what it is -- the factoids are (after all these years family. Seriously -- Happy Easter Zak. --Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 1:41:50 GMT -5
Are you saying people can't celebrate a holiday if they know what it is they're celebrating?
Uh.... because it's Easter? (Or it was.)
I have no problem with you celebrating Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving or whatever. But we are on a critical thinking and skeptics forum, and the whole point of critical thinking is to analyze things and get to the truth - instead of just accepting things at face value.
So. Easter is an ancient pagan festival that was hijacked by the Catholic church. I have no problem with that, and it didn't stop me eating too much chocolate : ) But if you have a problem with it, maybe you're on the wrong forum. Or maybe you should avoid reading comments posted by skeptics.
By the way, it was also Hitler's birthday. That's probably what they were celebrating in Austria.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 1:49:40 GMT -5
In my opinion, we've analyzed it all the way up your butt. After this point, I have to ask what plieasure you're getting out of it.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 1:51:46 GMT -5
Just the facts, ma'am : )
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Post by debutante on Apr 21, 2014 1:57:54 GMT -5
Are you saying people can't celebrate a holiday if they know what it is they're celebrating? Uh.... because it's Easter? (Or it was.) I have no problem with you celebrating Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving or whatever. But we are on a critical thinking and skeptics forum, and the whole point of critical thinking is to analyze things and get to the truth - instead of just accepting things at face value. So. Easter is an ancient pagan festival that was hijacked by the Catholic church. I have no problem with that, and it didn't stop me eating too much chocolate : ) But if you have a problem with it, maybe you're on the wrong forum. Or maybe you should avoid reading comments posted by skeptics. By the way, it was also Hitler's birthday. That's probably what they were celebrating in Austria. Dear Zak: No -- I don't have a problem with the historical aspects. I was more concerned that this Brother Stanislaw soured your feelings toward the holiday. I thought it was sad that your top Easter memory is getting beat up. If you knew me well, you'd realize that I feel bad for you. No child should have a holiday spoiled by a fanatic. --Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 2:01:53 GMT -5
Don't be silly. We were beaten up every day, not just on holidays : ) And it didn't "sour" me to anything. I pride myself in understanding from the get-go that religious people were self-deluded.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 2:10:33 GMT -5
Okay, besides the point of Easter or religion, how do you know as a human being with the same kind of brain as the rest of the human race, that you yourself are not deliuded in any shape or form? I can agree that we are probably delulded. But how come not you?
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 2:39:43 GMT -5
That's a good question. Some of the people I grew up with - friends, cousins - are religious. Yet they grew up in pretty much the same environment as I did. It never ceases to amaze me that they actually believe in all that god stuff. I never did, despite the fact that I was surrounded by it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 2:54:46 GMT -5
I think it's emotions. I think maybe you're too intelligent to be swayed by emotions.
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Post by debutante on Apr 21, 2014 2:57:52 GMT -5
That's a good question. Some of the people I grew up with - friends, cousins - are religious. Yet they grew up in pretty much the same environment as I did. It never ceases to amaze me that they actually believe in all that god stuff. I never did, despite the fact that I was surrounded by it. Dear Zak: I never for one moment thought God was totally knowable or explainable. So if the nuances of estabished religion don't line up exactly -- it's no biggie. I don't have to have all the answers because God does. Actually, I like it better that way. Knowing everything would be a terrific burden. I don't think you realize that it's far more personal than just buying into a set of beliefs. People can (and often do) seek a relationship with God that need not involve any church. --Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 2:58:05 GMT -5
Some very intelligent people are religious. I used to argue religion with the Jesuits in Ireland, and some of them were razor-sharp. Mind you, some of them were atheists : )
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Post by debutante on Apr 21, 2014 3:07:23 GMT -5
Some very intelligent people are religious. I used to argue religion with the Jesuits in Ireland, and some of them were razor-sharp. Mind you, some of them were atheists : ) Dear Zak: There's the crux of the matter -- you believe religion and God are equivalent. I don't believe you can successfully argue the unknowable. -- Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 21, 2014 3:51:07 GMT -5
Well, all religions are predicated on the existence of God. So in fact they are equivalent. As for arguing the unknowable, that's what people who believe in God do. Atheists merely argue for acceptance of what is knowable.
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