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Post by Roger (over and out) on Feb 24, 2014 22:00:12 GMT -5
Russian tanks amassing on the Russia-Ukraine border. Potential flashpoint - and extremely dangerous - situation in the making.
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Post by rmarks1 on Feb 24, 2014 22:30:02 GMT -5
Russian tanks amassing on the Russia-Ukraine border. Potential flashpoint - and extremely dangerous - situation in the making. Right Zak. An extremely dangerous situation. And getting worse. Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Feb 24, 2014 23:21:11 GMT -5
According to the BBC: "Russian analysts dismiss the possibility of a Kremlin-organized invasion." This seems to be the consensus among observers and policy makers, but I don't agree. Russia can't afford to lose Ukraine, for many reasons. The Russian view is that the revolution in Ukraine was orchestrated by Western forces. I think there is every possibility that Putin will send troops and tanks into the eastern regions of Ukraine. If this happens it will potentially bring Russian forces into direct confrontation with pro-European Union and pro-American forces. My guess is that the lights will be on all night in the Kremlin, as Putin and his henchmen weigh up their options.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Feb 25, 2014 10:44:00 GMT -5
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joan
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Post by joan on Feb 27, 2014 10:11:51 GMT -5
Putin is a KGB Thug.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Feb 27, 2014 12:13:13 GMT -5
He's KGB old school. But he's also very smart. Like Barack Obama, he's a constitutional lawyer, but with better qualifications than Obama (he has a PhD in international Law and a Masters in international business studies). His whole schtick is about winning, coming out on top, humiliating his opponents. And he's vindictive. He takes criticism personally. A number of journalists who wrote unflattering articles about him in the Russian press subsequently disappeared or were found dead in mysterious circumstances. He goes after his enemies, no matter where they are in the world. He also targets dissidents. The poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko, for example, was almost certainly carried out on his direct order. Putin is ultra-conservative and traditionalist. His mission in life - which he sees as his destiny - is to restore Russia to its former Tsarist glory - with him as top dog, of course. This is what he has been working towards for over 20 years. And the thing is, that aspiration can never be realized if the Ukraine turns its back on the Russian state and adopts a Western system of government.
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joan
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Post by joan on Feb 27, 2014 12:18:36 GMT -5
I totally agree with you.
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Post by rmarks1 on Feb 27, 2014 18:16:22 GMT -5
Right. He is a thug, but a smart one. And that makes him more dangerous. Russia still has nuclear weapons.
Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 1, 2014 6:40:40 GMT -5
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 1, 2014 12:41:22 GMT -5
It will get even worse. They didn't stop Putin in 2008 when he went into Georgia. Now he's going after the Ukraine. He wants to re-create the Soviet Empire and he's not afraid to spill a lot of blood to do it. The situation will reach a crisis point in a few weeks.
Bob
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joan
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Post by joan on Mar 1, 2014 17:56:42 GMT -5
It will get even worse. They didn't stop Putin in 2008 when he went into Georgia. Now he's going after the Ukraine. He wants to re-create the Soviet Empire and he's not afraid to spill a lot of blood to do it. The situation will reach a crisis point in a few weeks. Bob Agreed.
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Post by raybar on Mar 1, 2014 21:51:57 GMT -5
Without even knowing what it might be, I fear the worst here. But, as this was once a skeptic board, I feel someone needs to say that, while speculation is fine, no one is clairvoyant. We need to wait and see what happens, and not be too certain beforehand.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 2, 2014 4:09:35 GMT -5
Well obviously, as a clairvoyant, I have to disagree with you. And in fact - though of course I don't expect you to believe me - I had a psychic impression about this several months ago. I kept getting a mental/visual image of Russian tanks and armoured cars rolling across the Ukraine border, and some kind of naval incident or confrontation. I mentioned it to several people. And actually this was the main reason I was watching the situation in Ukraine so closely, when the demonstrations started. Once I saw the demos, I knew that things were going to develop along the lines I had foreseen. Incidentally, most "expert analysts", AND both the US's intelligence agencies, the CIA and the NSA, were certain, up until just 48 hours ago, that there would be no Russian invasion. "Putin’s Bluff? U.S. Spies Say Russia Won't Invade Ukraine" www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/27/u-s-spies-no-russia-isn-t-about-to-invade-ukraine.html"U.S. Spies Said No Russian Invasion of Ukraine—Putin Disagreed" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3128389/posts
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joan
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Post by joan on Mar 2, 2014 9:50:52 GMT -5
Has nada to do with clairvoyance or intuition. Has everything to do with putting 2+2 together based on history of actions.
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Post by raybar on Mar 2, 2014 10:17:39 GMT -5
Has nada to do with clairvoyance or intuition. Has everything to do with putting 2+2 together based on history of actions. Thank you, Joan.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 2, 2014 10:43:43 GMT -5
You're free to think that, but you're wrong. Psychic impressions come from a "different place" to logical deduction. I wasn't thinking about Ukraine three months ago. There was no 2 and 2 to put together. (And, incidentally, none of the political pundits or the intelligence agencies put 2 and 2 together until Russian troops were already heading towards the Ukraine border).
I know what psychic impressions feel like. I get them about things that are of no interest to me whatsoever, and which have no "build up" of any kind. Things that can't be calculated, even subliminally.
Believe what you like. This is what I do for a living.
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Post by debutante on Mar 2, 2014 12:07:57 GMT -5
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joan
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Post by joan on Mar 2, 2014 14:56:46 GMT -5
Strange. Zak, I had replied to you over 2 hours ago, the reply was set & it disappeared! Proving, I guess, that you are not the only one this happens to!
What I said was:
I was speaking for myself, how I arrived at this conclusion, & in no way meant to belittle how you arrived at the same place I did.
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Post by tricia on Mar 2, 2014 15:40:52 GMT -5
Why is Russia doing what they're doing? Does anyone even know? I asked someone the other day and they said it was because the people in Ukraine were protesting against their government and their government is horrible. So me, being me said "So the Russians are going in to help? That's not such a bad thing." .....the response was that it's because they're going in to "help" the wrong people.
Is that accurate?
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 2, 2014 17:09:35 GMT -5
Why is Russia doing what they're doing? Does anyone even know? I asked someone the other day and they said it was because the people in Ukraine were protesting against their government and their government is horrible. So me, being me said "So the Russians are going in to help? That's not such a bad thing." .....the response was that it's because they're going in to "help" the wrong people. Is that accurate? Putin wants to increase the power and territory of Russia. He is always looking for any opportunity to do this. The West did nothing to stop him when he invaded Georgia in 2008. That gave him the green light to try tactics like that in the future. The future is now. The president of the Ukraine was a Putin ally. He tried to steer the Ukraine towards Russia and away from the European community. Many Ukrainians protested. The Ukrainian president decided to break up the protests by force. A bunch of people were killed. The violence turned many more Ukrainians against their president. He then fled the country. Since many Russians live in the Ukraine, Putin then decided to use their "safety" as an excuse to send in troops. Basically, he is making a land grab. Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 2, 2014 20:01:14 GMT -5
That's a concise summary, Bob. I would just add that Russia isn't the only country in the world that is constantly seeking to expand its power and influence by illegally invading and occupying other countries. joan - Just for the record, I don't believe there's anything "paranormal" or "spiritual" about psychic impressions.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 3, 2014 3:10:04 GMT -5
And he said this with a straight face and without even a hint of irony.
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joan
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Post by joan on Mar 3, 2014 10:26:43 GMT -5
And he said this with a straight face and without even a hint of irony. Right. If it's not them doing it, it's us doing it.
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Post by tricia on Mar 3, 2014 13:10:27 GMT -5
Well, Andy, my polish friend/co worker is in a tizzy over it. He hates "The Russia" and says "The Putin" is "evil with big ego and wants to restore Soviet Union." He's been going on about it all morning and says he thinks this could be the start of something big. We, in turn, are annoying him by pretending we think the Russian President's name is "Puddin" (due to his pronunciation of it) and keep referring to him that way. Now we're calling *Andy* "puddin" and he is only slightly amused.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 5, 2014 9:37:23 GMT -5
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 5, 2014 10:48:28 GMT -5
Must watch for anyone who thinks the State Dept doesn't engage in conspiracies.
The US State Department has always denied Russian claims that the US (CIA) engineered the overthrow of the government (as it engineered uprisings in Libya and Syria). However, this leaked phone conversation between US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, and Assistant Secretary of State in Washington, victoria Nuland, reveals the degree of involvement the US had in fomenting dissent in Ukraine and manipulating the formation of the new government.
Report
The recorded telephone conversation (in full):
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 5, 2014 11:28:22 GMT -5
Must watch for anyone who thinks the State Dept doesn't engage in conspiracies.The US State Department has always denied Russian claims that the US (CIA) engineered the overthrow of the government (as it engineered uprisings in Libya and Syria). However, this leaked phone conversation between US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, and Assistant Secretary of State in Washington, victoria Nuland, reveals the degree of involvement the US had in fomenting dissent in Ukraine and manipulating the formation of the new government. Report The recorded telephone conversation (in full): So are you now saying that Putin's invasion is justified and he is now a hero? Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 5, 2014 11:47:19 GMT -5
Not at all. The US and Russian leaders are as bad as each other. Russia wants to expand its sphere of influence, and so does the US, and both are willing to break international law and use intimidation and violence to get what they want. The US is certainly in no position to criticize Russia when it has itself invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on bogus pretexts, killing almost a million civilians in the process. The US is also backing - with money, arms and expert advisors (CIA ops) - the so-called rebels in Syria, in an effort to overthrow the Syrian government. The US did the same thing in Libya. And it is doing the same thing now in Ukraine - fomenting dissent, arming and supporting the "rebels", and then manipulating the situation to put pro-American politicians into the new government. None of which entitles Putin to invade Ukraine. But let's not pretend that the US bears no responsibility for what's happening there (and in Syria).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 13:42:49 GMT -5
Yea, I mean there was hardly any dissent in Ukraine in the last decade or so. They absolutely needed the CIA to rile up the population. The pro-Russian and pro-Western factions have been at each other's throats for almost a decade, it didn't take the CIA (or whatever other sinister US organisation the conspiracy theorists are fond of these days) to stoke the fires there, they have been burning for a long time. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 6, 2014 14:40:08 GMT -5
Well, first of all, please don't use Wikipedia as a source. Wiki articles can be edited by anyone, especially by corpòrations and governments that can afford to pay teams of full-time editors to monitor their Wiki pages 24/7. Second, if there was as much dissent as you claim, why did the Ukranian people re-elect Yanukovych in 2010? And why did his party win the parliamentary elections again in 2012? These elections were monitored and deemed to be open and fair. Third - are you seriously suggesting that the CIA was not involved in agitation and anti-government activities in Ukraine? You're calling this claim a "conspiracy"? If so, you haven't been paying attention to what's going on. Either that, or you are very naive. There is abundant evidence that the CIA were involved in engineering many of the recent events in Ukraine. Even the CIA itself doesn't deny this. And the leaked telephone conversation between US ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt and assistant Secretary of State , Victoria Nuland, that I posted above (did you even bother to listen to it?) is proof of the State Department's involvement and its efforts to manipulate the formation of the new government. Here you have two senior US government figures deciding who will be the Ukraine's new Prime Minister! And the person they chose, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, is now occupying the post they chose for him. What's more, Yanukovych's overthrow only became possible following the killing, by snipers, of protesters. But it is now becoming increasingly clear that the snipers were not soldiers acting on Yanukovych's orders, but members of the US-financed opposition group, "Right Sector". Orchestrating a revolution isn't as difficult as one might think. Large numbers of people are actually easier to control and manipulate than small groups. Psychological leverage techniques can easily be applied by as few as a dozen trained operatives who know what they are doing. The CIA has acquired decades of experience and expertise in this kind of thing (psyops) in South America, where they have ousted numerous democratically-elected leaders and replaced them with pro-US dictators. www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm
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