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Post by debutante on Mar 23, 2020 15:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by mikkel on Mar 24, 2020 4:35:21 GMT -5
So here it is. Are Trump responsible? Well, no and yes. You want to make it a binary. It is not a binary.
Is Trump responsible for Corona virus? No! Is Trump responsible for how he acted when it make obvious that there might be a pandemic?
Now you answer that?
I know how to answer it. Trump is never responsible for anything, including what he could have done differently, because it is not his problem nor his responsibility as the US president. He is nothing but the victim of the deep state and the fake media.
See, responsibility is easy, that is not my problem. It is somebody else's fault and I couldn't have done anything differently. That is how you are a real adult. Take no responsibility for anything, but take credit for anything that goes well.
So, yes. Trump is nothing, because he has no power at all and can't do anything at all. That is how he has failed. He is not responsible for everything. Yet he is responsible for the fact, that he could have done more, but he didn't, because he turned it into partisan politics for to long.
Are others responsible in part too? Yes.
Stop making it into a simple binary of us versus them. The virus doesn't care about politics. We don't have the luxury of doing partisan politics now.
Mikkel
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Post by debutante on Mar 24, 2020 8:35:25 GMT -5
Ah! But Nancy Pelosi doesn't believe that! In fact, she doesn't let a good crisis go to waste. A bi-partisan bill was hammered out until the witch flew in on her broom.
A bill to uplift people and companies economically during the Corona virus shut down became all about: diversity hiring five years into the future, election vote harvesting and other methods to increase voter fraud, the green new deal, and all sorts of "pork" the little piggy thought she could squeeze into the bill using the suffering American people as blackmail.
Then she has the unmitigated gall to say her Catholic faith encourages her to become what is essentially a blackmailer!
THIS is why Democratic party is a giant turd floating in life's toilet. If she's acting like an obvious asshole, she shouldn't attempt to cloak herself in virtue. It's insulting to the people who are Catholic.
As an aside, I do not know why she has not been excommunicated because of her open support of abortion. That should be done to each and every so-called Catholic politician who espouses this position which, clearly violates so many aspects of law it would take me considerable time to list them and explain them. I don't wish to go into it today. However, I give Kudos to the bishop who wouldn't give communion to the Democrat politician -- now that's a REAL priest!
But I digress --Nancy wants to use a crisis to push her vision? She can push her vision where the sun doesn't shine.
Don't talk to me about bi-partisanship. I've loathed Democratic party as a group since I was fourteen. They have absolutely NO MORAL COMPASS when in pursuit of their goals. They made themselves crystal clear on that occasion. I do not forgive, nor do I forget. My gripe with them is personal.
--Debutante
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Post by debutante on Mar 24, 2020 9:25:46 GMT -5
Now that I've ranted and got that off my chest -- just how has Trump failed? The USA has a low death rate. And he has told the American people to stay inside their homes and utilize social distancing. THIS IS THE BEST METHOD TO PREVENT SPRED OF THE VIRUS.
Trump is not God. He can't say, "Virus be gone" and have it magically disappear.
He locked the borders early. GREAT AND BEST POSSIBLE MOVE.
Given how perishable medical supplies are kept, the availability of equipment on a normal basis, the shortage of masks due to Obama's failure to replenish supplies at the time non perishable stockpiles were depleted-- Trump has done EXTREMELY WELL.
I ordered medical supplies for a large medical center and another office for decades and I know EXACTLY what's what in terms of pricing, storage, timing to replace just before expiration, shipping times, delivery requirements, disposal of expired product, keeping track so there is no pilfering and a dozen or so other little nuances you wouldn't realize unless you'd been in charge of it.
It is a job in itself.
So this suggestion that Trump is "in charge" or "responsible" for medical equipment availability is pure Democrat CRAP.
He can be President or an Office Manager for a Medical Practice. He can NOT be both. There aren't enough hours in the day. The mere suggestion is ludicrous to anyone who has ever actually been in charge of seeing to it that whenever the doc sticks his hand out -- whatever he needs is right there being given to him.
Now that above doesn't even take into consideration that you are not talking about supplying a single practice but an entire nation.
Let me clue you. NOBODY would be totally prepared to take on a panendemic as President. NOBODY. The reason being is that there are too many variables occurring all over the place with too many people running hither, thither, and yon -- and I asure you that every state wants help right this second.
And while all the politicians are running around and the reporters are being asshats... the docs, nurses, et.al. draw on years of experience of "crisis" and try to do what they need to do amongst all these reporters getting in their way with questions they really don't have time to answer.
They are too polite to say "Go away assholes -- and let us do our job."
And that right there is the answer. Let the docs do their job. Let Trump manage the massive undertaking of trying to coordinate a response when all these chickens are running around squawking like hysterics making the situation worse.
This will pass. Pray the virus doesn't mutate. Just pray it doesn't mutate and we will get through it.
--Debutante
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Post by mikkel on Mar 24, 2020 11:08:39 GMT -5
I get now. It is simple to be a skeptic. I loathe republicans. Then a lot of words.
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Post by debutante on Mar 24, 2020 11:33:53 GMT -5
One question Mikkel -- Did a Republican ever pull a gun on you at political gathering?
A Democrat pulled one on me at one when I was fourteen. And his fellow Democrats told me that it was because he was "from a disenfranchised group" and thus it excused his behavior. In a pig's ass! As I said - NO MORAL COMPASS at all. I was fourteen. The dude was in this thirties. Go figure.
You have no clue who Democrats really are.
--Debutante
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 24, 2020 22:30:16 GMT -5
So here it is. Are Trump responsible? Well, no and yes. You want to make it a binary. It is not a binary. Is Trump responsible for Corona virus? No! Is Trump responsible for how he acted when it make obvious that there might be a pandemic? Now you answer that? I know how to answer it. Trump is never responsible for anything, including what he could have done differently, because it is not his problem nor his responsibility as the US president. He is nothing but the victim of the deep state and the fake media. See, responsibility is easy, that is not my problem. It is somebody else's fault and I couldn't have done anything differently. That is how you are a real adult. Take no responsibility for anything, but take credit for anything that goes well. Of course you have quotes from Trump where he says that he is not responsible for anything? Bob |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 3:37:51 GMT -5
One question Mikkel -- Did a Republican ever pull a gun on you at political gathering? A Democrat pulled one on me at one when I was fourteen. And his fellow Democrats told me that it was because he was "from a disenfranchised group" and thus it excused his behavior. In a pig's ass! As I said - NO MORAL COMPASS at all. I was fourteen. The dude was in this thirties. Go figure. You have no clue who Democrats really are. --Debutante I get it. You are the center of the universe and your experiences are the only relevant ones for all of us. Some Democrats did something to you, therefore it applies universally to all cases. I get it. Your subjectivity is the objective standard of morality. In effect you are the one true prophet of God and all morality follows from you. Mikkel |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 4:14:33 GMT -5
... Of course you have quotes from Trump where he says that he is not responsible for anything? Bob No, Bob. That is false biased fake news. Even if I could find Trump saying that, it is irrelevant because of reasons... Don't you get it - your bias is not a bias, but everybody else different than you have it. Your understanding of the world is, is the objective standard for everything. Under objective measurement standard for the world it says: Bob Marks. I do get your skepticism. You are the objective standard for how the world works, because otherwise the world doesn't subjectively make sense to you. Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 25, 2020 8:31:27 GMT -5
One question Mikkel -- Did a Republican ever pull a gun on you at political gathering? A Democrat pulled one on me at one when I was fourteen. And his fellow Democrats told me that it was because he was "from a disenfranchised group" and thus it excused his behavior. In a pig's ass! As I said - NO MORAL COMPASS at all. I was fourteen. The dude was in this thirties. Go figure. You have no clue who Democrats really are. --Debutante I get it. You are the center of the universe and your experiences are the only relevant ones for all of us. Some Democrats did something to you, therefore it applies universally to all cases. I get it. Your subjectivity is the objective standard of morality. In effect you are the one true prophet of God and all morality follows from you. Mikkel You forget-- I am from Chicago where your Democratic God Bathhouse Barry learned all his tricks. You know not that you know not. That's the amusing part. You haven't a clue! -- Debutante |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 8:53:45 GMT -5
I get it. You are the center of the universe and your experiences are the only relevant ones for all of us. Some Democrats did something to you, therefore it applies universally to all cases. I get it. Your subjectivity is the objective standard of morality. In effect you are the one true prophet of God and all morality follows from you. Mikkel You forget-- I am from Chicago where your Democratic God Bathhouse Barry learned all his tricks. You know not that you know not. That's the amusing part. You haven't a clue! -- Debutante I get it. Everything everybody does which falls under being Democratic... I get your logic. As for Republicans that is not relevant because of the no true Scotsman fallacy and what not. I get it. I can't agree with you that some Democrats are bad, and yet be different than them and still be a Democrat, because... Yet you can be a Republican and use another rule. I get how it works. You don't have to defend yourself. You are right, because of reasons... Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 25, 2020 9:48:07 GMT -5
You forget-- I am from Chicago where your Democratic God Bathhouse Barry learned all his tricks. You know not that you know not. That's the amusing part. You haven't a clue! -- Debutante I get it. Everything everybody does which falls under being Democratic... I get your logic. As for Republicans that is not relevant because of the no true Scotsman fallacy and what not. I get it. I can't agree with you that some Democrats are bad, and yet be different than them and still be a Democrat, because... Yet you can be a Republican and use another rule. I get how it works. You don't have to defend yourself. You are right, because of reasons... Mikkel Assuming you are who you say you are -- a man living in Denmark -- it's a pretty safe bet to say that you know more about politics in Denmark than I do. After all, anything I would read about Denmark would be written about a European country filtered through the eyes of an American reporter. Thus the slant and prejudices of the American reporter would color any information about Denmark's politics that I would have access to -- that is common sense. And even if I read articles written by a European reporter, I would still read them through an American lens. By that same token, your view of American politics is filtered through a European lens, for the exact same reasons of cultural differences. Now then, let me clue you. Except for the coasts, the United States is nowhere near as liberal as Europe. Our mainstream media is entirely owned by liberals -- so it APPEARS to outsiders that conservatives are the minority. This is not the case. We have been, for far too long "silent". That changed in 2016. You need only look at the enormous crowds at Trump rallies to realize that he has incredible support. The "fake news" can lie its ass off and proclaim poor senile Joe Biden has all this support, but he can barely fill a high school gym. Joe Biden is senile. I don't mean to be rude, but he is - or he's pretending to be to avoid prosecution in case he gets nailed for what went down in the Ukraine. Now we all know that the Democrats real candidate will either replace Biden altogether before the election or be VP in the unlikely event they can cheat enough to actually win. Hopefully we will have voter ID by then and the Dems will not be able to multiple vote, count the dead, and "harvest" by voting for people who don't even know they are supposedly voting. So -- the bottom line is -- I don't really care about politics in Denmark. You can have all the migrants you want. Feel free to open your borders. Give eveything away-- socialism up the kazoo -- more power to you. Those in the USA who think socialism is so wonderful should really move to Denmark or wherever -- there are plenty of socialist places where they can mooch all they want off other people. But they don't wish to do that. Because as Margaret Thatcher once said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. And THAT is Europe's problem with Donald Trump. To put it bluntly -- The United States under President Trump is no longer the World's piggy bank. Have your socialism. Best of luck to you. Wish you well. But do it on your own dime. NO ONE WORLD ORDER. The United States has our own constitution. Republicans want it to stay exactly the way it has always been. We are PATRIOTS. And for us, we believe America comes first. MAGA TRUMP 2020 --Debutante |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 9:56:20 GMT -5
... Now then, let me clue you. Except for the coasts, the United States is nowhere near as liberal as Europe. Our mainstream media is entirely owned by liberals -- so it APPEARS to outsiders that conservatives are the minority. This is not the case. We have been, for far too long "silent". That changed in 2016. ... Yes, he won by 3 million votes. I know. You are the true majority because of reasons... Now I get the US is different, yet it is not. We have the same divide between conservatives and liberals as you do. And you know what, there are more liberals than conservatives just as in the USA. You are a minority. Get used to it. Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 25, 2020 10:15:35 GMT -5
... Now then, let me clue you. Except for the coasts, the United States is nowhere near as liberal as Europe. Our mainstream media is entirely owned by liberals -- so it APPEARS to outsiders that conservatives are the minority. This is not the case. We have been, for far too long "silent". That changed in 2016. ... Yes, he won by 3 million votes. I know. You are the true majority because of reasons... Now I get the US is different, yet it is not. We have the same divide between conservatives and liberals as you do. And you know what, there are more liberals than conservatives just as in the USA. You are a minority. Get used to it. Mikkel You really don't "get" it. In the United States Democrats cheat like hell during elections. They have dead people voting Democratic. People are bused from poll to poll and vote several times as Democrats. They "vote harvest" which means they magically "find" bushels full of democratic votes of non existent people or people who didn't really bother to vote who they vote FOR as Democrats. Get the picture? Trump did win the popular vote once they started tossing all the phoney votes off the rolls but the mainstream media won't tell you that. Sheesh. Can't blame you. How would you know --- all you get it propaganda. |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 11:25:01 GMT -5
... You really don't "get" it. In the United States Democrats cheat like hell during elections. They have dead people voting Democratic. People are bused from poll to poll and vote several times as Democrats. They "vote harvest" which means they magically "find" bushels full of democratic votes of non existent people or people who didn't really bother to vote who they vote FOR as Democrats. Get the picture? Trump did win the popular vote once they started tossing all the phoney votes off the rolls but the mainstream media won't tell you that. Sheesh. Can't blame you. How would you know --- all you get it propaganda. Yes, I do get. You have 2 corrupt parties. I know that. I just identify with one of them and you with the other. Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 25, 2020 11:32:23 GMT -5
... You really don't "get" it. In the United States Democrats cheat like hell during elections. They have dead people voting Democratic. People are bused from poll to poll and vote several times as Democrats. They "vote harvest" which means they magically "find" bushels full of democratic votes of non existent people or people who didn't really bother to vote who they vote FOR as Democrats. Get the picture? Trump did win the popular vote once they started tossing all the phoney votes off the rolls but the mainstream media won't tell you that. Sheesh. Can't blame you. How would you know --- all you get it propaganda. Yes, I do get. You have 2 corrupt parties. I know that. I just identify with one of them and you with the other. Mikkel Then you really aren't living in Denmark. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a reason to "identify" with American politics. --Debutante |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 14:10:53 GMT -5
Then you really aren't living in Denmark. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a reason to "identify" with American politics. --Debutante You really only understand the world from your point of view. As a children I was brought up in part on American movies and latter American series. I properly have read more American and English fiction than Danish. I live in multicultural world and a lot of that includes American culture. I live in the part of Europa, which in part is so great because we have lived under an American shield and hegemony. What happens in America is more important for Denmark than what happens in Denmark in some sense. I am an American in part, because in effect your power and culture is everywhere in the world and particularly in parts of Europa. Now for Denmark, our official religion is an German idea, a variation of a Roman idea based on an idea of a carpenter, which wanted to reform his own religion. As for our system of government, that is Greek. As for our legal system, that is French. As for our central civil servant system, that is German. The welfare state is a German Idea. So is my political ideology, social democracy, it is German. As for my belief in a secular humanistic society with universal human rights, that is general European though originally French and as much secular as Christian. As for our economy system that is original Italian and then modified in a general European sense. As for our overall worldview that is as much Greek and secular as it is Christian. As for our Queen, she is more a foreigner than Danish, primarily German as much as generally Scandinavian. As for my own worldview I am not a nationalist nor patriot, I am a cosmopolitan and believe in universal human rights and democracy as such. I believe in humanity. As for my philosophy that is Greek, skepticism and American, pragmatism. I watch more American politics than I watch Danish politics. I watch more American entertainment than Danish. I am on a generally international forum other than this. And I don't partake in anything Danish on the Internet. So Debutante, yes, I live in Denmark, but that is to simple, because I am a human. Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 25, 2020 15:32:40 GMT -5
Well, if you're all that fond of Democratic America -I'll willingly give you Obama,Big Mike, both Cluntons, Pelosi, Schumer,Schiff, Kerry, Mad Maxine, and a whole bunch of others free of charge for your very own.
You need not thank me. It will be your own piece of America in Denmark to cherish. I bet you wouldn't last a month before begging me to take them back!
Seriously though -- I am not lying to you. The Looney left is on both coasts and the conservatives occupy the middle of the country. Chicago has a lot of lefty loons too -- but the rest of the state (thank God) is sane. The smart people in Chicago just avoid the social justice warriors and say things like, "look at those nuts", when they kick up a fuss.
The media will tell you that these people must be taken seriously. We tend to laugh at them (and the media too)!
Don't misunderstand. Once upon a time, decades ago, we did take them seriously. Then they became addicted to demanding. At that point, we learned that it is best not to give a mouse a cookie. They endlessly demand...and demand...and demand...ad infinitum
So the Democrats are SOL because they never learned that enough is enough. Now we just think they're nuts.
--Debutante
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Post by mikkel on Mar 25, 2020 16:27:29 GMT -5
Well, if you're all that fond of Democratic America -I'll willingly give you Obama,Big Mike, both Cluntons, Pelosi, Schumer,Schiff, Kerry, Mad Maxine, and a whole bunch of others free of charge for your very own. You need not thank me. It will be your own piece of America in Denmark to cherish. I bet you wouldn't last a month before begging me to take them back! Seriously though -- I am not lying to you. The Looney left is on both coasts and the conservatives occupy the middle of the country. Chicago has a lot of lefty loons too -- but the rest of the state (thank God) is sane. The smart people in Chicago just avoid the social justice warriors and say things like, "look at those nuts", when they kick up a fuss. The media will tell you that these people must be taken seriously. We tend to laugh at them (and the media too)! Don't misunderstand. Once upon a time, decades ago, we did take them seriously. Then they became addicted to demanding. At that point, we learned that it is best not to give a mouse a cookie. They endlessly demand...and demand...and demand...ad infinitum So the Democrats are SOL because they never learned that enough is enough. Now we just think they're nuts. --Debutante Okay, now something foreign. The Danish left, your Democrats just in the Danish version. We have 179 members of the parliament. I won't use the Danish names but rather fit them into US terms. 48 Moderate/Blue Dog - Makes up the governing party and head of government. 14 Moderate left 13 Bernie Bros and finally to show you how weird Danish politics are 16 Rockefeller Republicans 92 Total That is the current ruling coalition. You see, we are diverse as Democrats go and because we have a tradition of over the middle compromise the Bernie Bros can't demand that much, because there are moderate Republicans willing to work over the middle. The same is the case, when the Republicans are in power. The most right leaning are kept in check by fact by the Danish tradition of over the middle compromise. In fact big reforms are made over the middle and never by just one side. You see, in Denmark we believe in democracy and that it is in effect a compromise. If you make it about winning over the other side you can destroy the trust in each other, because you in effect becomes enemies. You see, I don't loathe the Republicans. They are my fellows humans and I accept that they are different than me. The Trench War you as Americans are engaging in could go really bad. By the way. I have more in common with some of the Republican fractions in Denmark than the Bernie Bros and I accept the idea of an inclusive compromise over the middle. Yeah, I know, I am properly weird to you. E.g. when it comes to the military I am an Republican and also on the right in some aspects of immigration. Yet I don't have to become a Republican to achieve that. The moderate/Blue Dog fraction of the Democrat takes care of that and meet my other need as a moderate Democrat. See, ain't the world a wonderful place. Regards Mikkel |
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 26, 2020 0:07:48 GMT -5
... Of course you have quotes from Trump where he says that he is not responsible for anything? Bob No, Bob. That is false biased fake news. Even if I could find Trump saying that, it is irrelevant because of reasons... Don't you get it - your bias is not a bias, but everybody else different than you have it. Your understanding of the world is, is the objective standard for everything. Under objective measurement standard for the world it says: Bob Marks. I do get your skepticism. You are the objective standard for how the world works, because otherwise the world doesn't subjectively make sense to you. Mikkel
Ad Hominem. You say I'm biased but you have offered no evidence at all. Are we just supposed to take you word for it? Also you are offering a Red Herring here.
Do repeat the question, do you have any actual evidence?
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 26, 2020 0:11:36 GMT -5
Well, if you're all that fond of Democratic America -I'll willingly give you Obama,Big Mike, both Cluntons, Pelosi, Schumer,Schiff, Kerry, Mad Maxine, and a whole bunch of others free of charge for your very own. You need not thank me. It will be your own piece of America in Denmark to cherish. I bet you wouldn't last a month before begging me to take them back! Seriously though -- I am not lying to you. The Looney left is on both coasts and the conservatives occupy the middle of the country. Chicago has a lot of lefty loons too -- but the rest of the state (thank God) is sane. The smart people in Chicago just avoid the social justice warriors and say things like, "look at those nuts", when they kick up a fuss. The media will tell you that these people must be taken seriously. We tend to laugh at them (and the media too)! Don't misunderstand. Once upon a time, decades ago, we did take them seriously. Then they became addicted to demanding. At that point, we learned that it is best not to give a mouse a cookie. They endlessly demand...and demand...and demand...ad infinitum So the Democrats are SOL because they never learned that enough is enough. Now we just think they're nuts. --Debutante Okay, now something foreign. The Danish left, your Democrats just in the Danish version. We have 179 members of the parliament. I won't use the Danish names but rather fit them into US terms. 48 Moderate/Blue Dog - Makes up the governing party and head of government. 14 Moderate left 13 Bernie Bros and finally to show you how weird Danish politics are 16 Rockefeller Republicans 92 Total That is the current ruling coalition. You see, we are diverse as Democrats go and because we have a tradition of over the middle compromise the Bernie Bros can't demand that much, because there are moderate Republicans willing to work over the middle. The same is the case, when the Republicans are in power. The most right leaning are kept in check by fact by the Danish tradition of over the middle compromise. In fact big reforms are made over the middle and never by just one side. You see, in Denmark we believe in democracy and that it is in effect a compromise. If you make it about winning over the other side you can destroy the trust in each other, because you in effect becomes enemies. You see, I don't loathe the Republicans. They are my fellows humans and I accept that they are different than me. The Trench War you as Americans are engaging in could go really bad. By the way. I have more in common with some of the Republican fractions in Denmark than the Bernie Bros and I accept the idea of an inclusive compromise over the middle. Yeah, I know, I am properly weird to you. E.g. when it comes to the military I am an Republican and also on the right in some aspects of immigration. Yet I don't have to become a Republican to achieve that. The moderate/Blue Dog fraction of the Democrat takes care of that and meet my other need as a moderate Democrat. See, ain't the world a wonderful place. Regards Mikkel
We used to be that way here Mikkel. But it changed gradually over the last 40 years.
Bob
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