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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 8, 2020 23:20:22 GMT -5
It turns out that ordinary flu kills far more people each year that the Corona virus.
Bob
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Post by mikkel on Mar 12, 2020 5:20:48 GMT -5
Could you be a skeptic?
If I claim, that you are overlooking something, could you check and figure out, what you might have overlooked?
Mikkel
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Post by mikkel on Mar 12, 2020 5:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by mikkel on Mar 12, 2020 5:44:21 GMT -5
Here is moreHow come you placed your post in politics and rants? It seems to belong in the main forum?!! Do you have a political or otherwise subjective bias? Mikkel
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 12, 2020 12:53:25 GMT -5
MSNBC is not exactly the most reliable news source. For over one year they constantly reassured us that Trump was on the verge of being found guilty of collaboration with the Russians. That didn't happen. Do you have a source that is more credible?
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 12, 2020 12:57:40 GMT -5
Here is moreHow come you placed your post in politics and rants? It seems to belong in the main forum?!! Do you have a political or otherwise subjective bias? Mikkel
This is a political thing. It has to do with government action. And there has been plenty of that in both China and the USA. Here in New York, they just canceled the St. Patrick's Day Parade for the first time in over 250 years. Schools are closing. Sports teams are playing without an audience.
Obviously political action is heavily involved.
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 12, 2020 12:59:43 GMT -5
Could you be a skeptic? If I claim, that you are overlooking something, could you check and figure out, what you might have overlooked? Mikkel
As always on this board, the person who makes the claim has to supply the evidence. If you claim I overlooked something, you have to point out what has been overlooked.
Bob
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Post by mikkel on Mar 12, 2020 13:18:35 GMT -5
No, because you can't trust me. I am biased. You just trust what you trust and the corona-virus is nothing but politics. The science behind the links I posted is biased also. There is no science at all, because it is all politics. And you can't trust this post and you can't trust anything, even the link you gave, because that is also politics. Don't trust anything and don't check yourself. Don't even trust that, it is all politics. Remember the scientists on the shows are all nothing but political. But don't trust that, trust nothing. No stop talking to anybody, because it is all politics and don't follow your own advice. You made a post, which you didn't back up with any evidence. So no, Bob! You start. Back up your post. BTW www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/current-risk-assessment-novel-coronavirus-situationYou can't trust this and you can't trust that people died in Italy, because the hospitals were overwhelmed and couldn't care for all the patients. It has never happened and it is not happening. I know your kind of skepticism. You can't trust anything, except your own beliefs. |
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Post by debutante on Mar 12, 2020 15:48:51 GMT -5
Mikkel:
Actually, it's both.
Certainly in China and Europe there is a real problem and nobody would think to deny that.
But in the United States, Trump quickly shut down flights from China (and was accused of racism for doing so). Yet now, it's obvious that act kept the virus from spreading more rapidly.
The virus is being used (or attempting to be used) by the Democrats because 2020 is an election year and they hope it will help them to beat Trump. They have nothing else going for them -- they have no platform to speak of and a candidate choice between a communist and a senile man slipping ever further into unreality.
There are many facets to this medical problem but the anti-Trump media is working overtime to try to make it seem as if it's Trump's fault that this is happening.
It's not. This problem started in China. It was downplayed and semi covered up by the Chinese government until it became too big to hide. By that time it spred.
With the European Union (and their borderless policy among members) it moved more quickly than it would have if each member maintained its own border security.
Yesterday, Trump expanded the restricted travel ban to include most of Europe. I couldn't praise him more heartily for this move. Again, it will prevent more cases of the virus from entering our shores. Yet, Trump's enemies are still attempting to make a political issue out of what is sound medical practice. This has nothing to do with "friendship" toward other countries. This has to do with pathogens.
By isolating ourselves, we need only deal with the cases that managed to slip across thus far. Hopefully, we can isolate and quarantine those exposed until they are safe to rejoin the general population.
We may yet weather this storm with controlled levels of exposure due to Trump's quick responses.
But make no mistake -- no matter what Trump does the Democrats will still try to use this virus as a weapon against him -- hoping to improve their chances in the 2020 election.
Every American knows this -- perhaps the European press (being largely globalist in slant) doesn't report that Trump has tremendous support from the American people. The "fake news" is just that -- fake.
--Debutante
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Post by mikkel on Mar 12, 2020 16:11:51 GMT -5
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Post by debutante on Mar 12, 2020 17:20:44 GMT -5
Mikkel:
I also hope that Europe quickly brings this virus under control. Hopefully, it will not mutate.
Trump has our scientists working on developing a vaccine. So right now, it's a question of playing "beat the clock". If the USA finds one, they will quickly release it to everyone. Trump is President of the USA first, but he would not let other countries suffer needlessly if a solution is found.
Let us hope our scientists are guided by God to a quick solution to the problem.
-- Debutante
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 12, 2020 21:00:03 GMT -5
No, because you can't trust me. I am biased. You just trust what you trust and the corona-virus is nothing but politics. The science behind the links I posted is biased also. There is no science at all, because it is all politics. And you can't trust this post and you can't trust anything, even the link you gave, because that is also politics. Actually, what I said is that the corona Virus pandemic has a political component. It does, doesn't it? I never said that "the corona-virus is nothing but politics." I never said that either. But don't trust that, trust nothing. Here in New York, museums, schools, and theaters are being closed. Take a look: "How the Virus Has Changed Life in the United States The N.C.A.A. March Madness tournaments were canceled and concerts were suspended. Disney closed its theme parks in California and Florida." www.nytimes.com/Where did I ever say that? I didn't. Bob |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 13, 2020 2:52:37 GMT -5
So the hysteria is all politics and are not connected to actual facts and in fact for some responses not hysteria? All responses about the need to do something are nothing but hysteria, yet they are not.
Got you.
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Post by mikkel on Mar 13, 2020 5:49:22 GMT -5
Remember this, Bob. Everybody but you are biased and have a political agenda. If you check a source, you have to check it further with further sources, which all have biases and are nothing but political agenda. So you are safe, if you just trust yourself and nobody else, except when they confirm, what you already know. That is the correct version of skepticism. Doubt everybody but yourself, because you hold the truth. medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99caNow this is nothing but hysteria and it isn't really happening and won't happen. E.g. for me, I can't end up in a hospital, where I am left to die, because the hospital can't treat everybody and have to let somebody die, because they have to use triage. That is not, how the world works. It has never happened and it will never happen. Just believe that and it is true, because you hold the truth, so it won't happen and it has never happened. PS I am former medic of the poor bloody infantry and I was trained to be realistic. When we go FUBAR not amount of wishful thinking will help. We can't rule out that we are going FUBAR, but it doesn't matter, because we won't go FUBAR. It is all hysteria and nothing but politics, right, Bob? |
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 13, 2020 8:50:01 GMT -5
So the hysteria is all politics and are not connected to actual facts and in fact for some responses not hysteria? Where did I say that? I didn't/ I didn't say that either. No. What you've got is your own re-wording of what I actually said. Bob |
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 13, 2020 9:03:12 GMT -5
Remember this, Bob. Everybody but you are biased and have a political agenda. Ad Hominem. Do you have a refutation of what I have said? Your words, not mine. Then why would be here on the FACTS board? I post here for the purpose of seeing contrary opinions. I don't trust left-wing MSNBC for the same reason I don't trust right-wing FOX NEWS. They are both heavily biased in opposite directions. Bob |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 13, 2020 9:18:25 GMT -5
So this is true? Or just an opinion and has nothing to do with truth?
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Post by mikkel on Mar 13, 2020 13:23:11 GMT -5
Hi Bob Overall, we rate NBC News Left-Center biased based on story selection and word choices that moderately favor the left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. mediabiasfactcheck.com/nbc-news/Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/So you pick neutral sources, which high factual rating. Or rather not. Here is your pick: nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/ Here is my pick for now about the Corona virus. www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/people-have-been-trying-underplay-why-coronavirus-different-flu-n1156801Now here is MSNBC for some of my previous link Overall, we rate MSNBC Left Biased based on story selection that consistently leans left editorially. Although pundits and hosts have failed a few fact checks, straight news reporting is usually factual and sourced, therefore we rate them Mostly Factual for news reporting. So if you combine several news sites, you get this: Corona virus can hit more people because no herd-immunity. There is properly a higher morality rate than flu and corona is not the flu. In worst cases the amount of sick will overwhelm the hospitals and cause even more deaths, because there is not enough capacity to treat all the patients at the same time. So here is the score: You used a cite with borderline questionable facts. I use a combination of first - Mostly Factual for news reporting and then - High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. So learn to check your own source, if you demand it of others. You failed, Bob. Mikkel |
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Post by debutante on Mar 13, 2020 14:04:37 GMT -5
In all fairness -- my understanding is that there is no "special" treatment protocol specifically geared to this strain of Corona virus.
That being said, a lot of the hoopla in the papers is just that -- hoopla. There aren't enough diagnostic tests? So if there is no specific treatment what does a specific diagnosis matter? The treatment being given (as far as I am aware, is the same as any other strain of flu).
The only reason you'd need a definitive diagnosis is for quarantine purposes. And during an outbreak, with a shortage of available test kits -- if anyone has the brains God gave a goat -- if they are symptomatic they should assume they are contagious and self-isolate. That's a no-brainer.
That being said -- I personally believe a shut down as a precautionary measure is a prudent strategy regardless of how many actual cases are presently within the borders of the United States. We still have illegal aliens sneaking across vulnerable points. The more "in place" precautions" the better until this virus runs its course.
People can live with the inconvenience. They just need to remind themselves that because of it, they are living.
--Debutante
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Post by mikkel on Mar 13, 2020 14:13:13 GMT -5
In all fairness -- my understanding is that there is no "special" treatment protocol specifically geared to this strain of Corona virus. That being said, a lot of the hoopla in the papers is just that -- hoopla. There aren't enough diagnostic tests? So if there is no specific treatment what does a specific diagnosis matter? The treatment being given (as far as I am aware, is the same as any other strain of flu). The only reason you'd need a definitive diagnosis is for quarantine purposes. And during an outbreak, with a shortage of available test kits -- if anyone has the brains God gave a goat -- if they are symptomatic they should assume they are contagious and self-isolate. That's a no-brainer. That being said -- I personally believe a shut down as a precautionary measure is a prudent strategy regardless of how many actual cases are presently within the borders of the United States. We still have illegal aliens sneaking across vulnerable points. The more "in place" precautions" the better until this virus runs its course. People can live with the inconvenience. They just need to remind themselves that because of it, they are living. --Debutante The problem is that you can get such a big spike, that the overwhelms the health care system, than if you get it contained and spread it over time. Mikkel |
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 14, 2020 0:19:37 GMT -5
So this is true? Or just an opinion and has nothing to do with truth?
The numbers cited in the article are not opinions. They are facts.
Unless of course you have evidence that the numbers are wrong. Do you?
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 14, 2020 0:31:41 GMT -5
Hi Bob Overall, we rate NBC News Left-Center biased based on story selection and word choices that moderately favor the left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. mediabiasfactcheck.com/nbc-news/Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/So you pick neutral sources, which high factual rating. Or rather not. Here is your pick: nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/ Here is my pick for now about the Corona virus. www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/people-have-been-trying-underplay-why-coronavirus-different-flu-n1156801Now here is MSNBC for some of my previous link Overall, we rate MSNBC Left Biased based on story selection that consistently leans left editorially. Although pundits and hosts have failed a few fact checks, straight news reporting is usually factual and sourced, therefore we rate them Mostly Factual for news reporting. So if you combine several news sites, you get this: Corona virus can hit more people because no herd-immunity. There is properly a higher morality rate than flu and corona is not the flu. In worst cases the amount of sick will overwhelm the hospitals and cause even more deaths, because there is not enough capacity to treat all the patients at the same time. So here is the score: You used a cite with borderline questionable facts. I use a combination of first - Mostly Factual for news reporting and then - High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. So learn to check your own source, if you demand it of others. You failed, Bob. Mikkel
Were any of the facts cited in the NY Post article I posted wrong? If so, which ones?
Bob
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Post by mikkel on Mar 14, 2020 0:37:37 GMT -5
So the numbers from China are one to one the same as to flu?
Do you even understand the difference between a regular flu outbreak and what happened in China?
Are you remotely aware what I am hinted at?
Could you think through what happened in China and compare it to a flu outbreak?
I am trying to get you to consider if you can just compare the numbers at face value?
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 14, 2020 0:38:16 GMT -5
Hi Bob Overall, we rate NBC News Left-Center biased based on story selection and word choices that moderately favor the left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. mediabiasfactcheck.com/nbc-news/Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/So you pick neutral sources, which high factual rating. Or rather not. Here is your pick: nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/ Here is my pick for now about the Corona virus. www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/people-have-been-trying-underplay-why-coronavirus-different-flu-n1156801Now here is MSNBC for some of my previous link Overall, we rate MSNBC Left Biased based on story selection that consistently leans left editorially. Although pundits and hosts have failed a few fact checks, straight news reporting is usually factual and sourced, therefore we rate them Mostly Factual for news reporting. So if you combine several news sites, you get this: Corona virus can hit more people because no herd-immunity. There is properly a higher morality rate than flu and corona is not the flu. In worst cases the amount of sick will overwhelm the hospitals and cause even more deaths, because there is not enough capacity to treat all the patients at the same time. So here is the score: You used a cite with borderline questionable facts. I use a combination of first - Mostly Factual for news reporting and then - High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a reasonable fact check record. So learn to check your own source, if you demand it of others. You failed, Bob. Mikkel
The problem is you did not post quotes from NBC News. You posted from CNBC. They are two different organizations. Take a look:
"In the Pew Research Center's 2013 "State of the News Media" report, MSNBC was found to be the most opinionated news network, with 85 percent of the content being commentary or opinions and the remaining 15 percent being factual reporting."
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 14, 2020 0:42:51 GMT -5
So the numbers from China are one to one the same as to flu? Do you even understand the difference between a regular flu outbreak and what happened in China? Are you remotely aware what I am hinted at? Could you think through what happened in China and compare it to a flu outbreak? I am try to get you to consider if you can just compare the numbers at face value?
Based on new numbers that are now coming out, I would say that you are right and Carona virus is deadlier than regular flu.
But that still doesn't negate the fact that the earlier numbers in the Post article were valid at the time.
Bob
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Post by mikkel on Mar 14, 2020 0:42:58 GMT -5
Let me give you an example from the Vietnam war.
The death rate of US soldiers in % was the same as an average American? What does that hide? If you just look at the numbers, what are you overlooking?
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Post by mikkel on Mar 14, 2020 0:44:39 GMT -5
So the numbers from China are one to one the same as to flu? Do you even understand the difference between a regular flu outbreak and what happened in China? Are you remotely aware what I am hinted at? Could you think through what happened in China and compare it to a flu outbreak? I am try to get you to consider if you can just compare the numbers at face value? Based on new numbers that are now coming out, I would say that you are right and Carona virus is deadlier than regular flu.
But that still doesn't negate the fact that the earlier numbers in the Post article were valid at the time.
Bob
You are still maybe overlooking something? |
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Post by mikkel on Mar 14, 2020 0:55:07 GMT -5
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Post by mikkel on Mar 14, 2020 8:17:51 GMT -5
Hi Bob. You have to be critical of your sources and use more than one. I have tried to do so. So here is Wikipedia on your source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post#CriticismThe problem is not the numbers, is how they are used. What context they are placed in and how they are viewed. There are 3 answers as a joke: Truth, falsehood and statistics. Statistics in themselves are no the whole truth. It is the interpretation that matters. Mikkel |
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Post by rmarks1 on Mar 15, 2020 19:41:36 GMT -5
Statistics in themselves are no the whole truth. It is the interpretation that matters. Mikkel
True.
Bob
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