joan
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Post by joan on May 23, 2013 7:48:58 GMT -5
I like this new pope.
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Post by pat on May 23, 2013 9:28:55 GMT -5
I do, too, Joan...
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Post by raybar on May 23, 2013 10:54:08 GMT -5
This atheist does not feel any need for redemption, except for airline miles and bonus points on my credit cards.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 12:40:45 GMT -5
I saw that coming. ;-) Not that I think it wasn't warranted.
However, IMO, and I could be wrong, of course, I don't think the Pope meant to patronize atheists but was more addressing some of the self-righteous, know-it-all Christians. In fact, quite emulating what Jesus said.
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Post by raybar on May 23, 2013 14:04:59 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus was pretty all-inclusive, at least as far as we can tell from what is written in the New Testament. But there is the view that you get to heaven through faith, by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior. To hear some tell it, nothing else matters. Good works are fine, but if you don't believe you're on your way to hell. One preacher I used to watch on TV sometimes, Gene Scott (deceased), contended that to be saved through good works required absolute perfection, which has only ever been achieved by Jesus himself. Scott's church, the Los Angeles University Cathedral, had the big "Jesus Saves" signs that you may have seen in movies. Of course, being an atheist, I don't think I need saving.
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Post by faskew on May 23, 2013 14:18:38 GMT -5
Of course the irony is that what Jesus saves you from is...wait for it...Jesus! 8->
It was God (Jesus, JHVH, Elohim, etc.) who cursed Adam and all his descendents with death. And later on created Hell and/or other such punishments.
So it's like someone holding a gun to your head and telling you to beg for your life. And MAYBE they won't shoot you. If you do everything they toll you to. Of course, even begging only postpones death for a little while. You still get shot eventually. And, to top it off, you're supposed to feel grateful. It's really a dark, dark religion. 8-<
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 14:22:36 GMT -5
Which is what I was saying in my opinion is what the Pope was trying to say against self-righteous religious folks. Raybar, it's not saying you have to take it personally. And of course, you don't have to accept it at all. Perhaps Debutante, Joan, and Pat could express why they like what the Pope had to say. it might be much different than my interpretation.
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Post by raybar on May 23, 2013 14:28:44 GMT -5
I don't take it personally, Lily. We're just having a chat. Even the self-righteous don't bother me unless they bang on the door. Oh, no, wait, that's the JWs, and while I wish they would stay away, at least they're always polite.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 14:34:23 GMT -5
I meant personally about what the Pope said. I think a lot of atheists are feeling patronized. I would really like to hear more from Deb, Joan, and Pat.
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Post by pat on May 23, 2013 15:37:21 GMT -5
This Pope seems to be a bit more understand of mankind. Not being an overly religious person, it has never mattered to me if someone believes or doesn't believe in God, Heaven, Hell....what matters most to me is how they behave, react and respond to life, others, adversity, good times. We are here, now, and live on this planet with others and everything we say and do has consequence. We need to think of how our actions impact others and trying to prevent our actions from having a terribly negative impact on others, if possible, is good....for them and ultimately, for ourselves.
Will he be a good Pope? Time will tell, but he is a humble man and appears to be quite empathetic of his fellow man.
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joan
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Post by joan on May 23, 2013 16:26:10 GMT -5
I agree with pat & deb in that this new pope doesn't seem heavy handed & oppressive. It's just a feeling, of course, I really don't pay too much attention to a pope until I'm annoyed at his influence & so far I can't find the new pope annoying. He gives off a graceful aura, I like his appearance. I don't mean looks, I mean the way he carries himself. So far, so good, IMO.
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Post by faskew on May 24, 2013 6:50:43 GMT -5
This new guy does seem as if he shouldn't be in the job. For 1700 years or so they've been saying that you can't make it into heaven without the Church (regardless of belief or actions). Now he's saying that the Church is optional. Whoa. You mean we don't have to give the Church our money? Cool.
Cut to Vatican kitchen. A man leans over the Pope's lunch and pours a clear liquid over it. He glance around, furtively, then slips out the back mumbling. "For the Church" in Latin.
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Post by raybar on May 24, 2013 9:14:06 GMT -5
For 1700 years or so they've been saying that you can't make it into heaven without the Church That is not what I was taught at Our Lady Help of Christians www.ourladys.com/ just west of Boston. The Sisters of Perpetual Suffering, I mean, the Sisters of Saint Joseph, told us that good people who were not catholic would have to wait in Limbo until the final judgment before they could go to heaven. Good people would not go to hell just because they weren't catholic. They would just have to wait around with all the unbaptized babies who couldn't get in right away either.
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Post by raybar on May 24, 2013 9:30:16 GMT -5
When I was a little girl, things were so rigid that we were not allowed to so much as speak to anyone who wasn't Catholic. Debutante, you must have been in one incredibly rigid non-catholic-phobic parish. I was never told anything like that, and it would have been impossible to comply if I had been. In addition to Catholic Churches, the city was well populated with Protestant churches (including 5 within 2 blocks of our house - Presbyterian, Episcopal, Baptist, Congregational, Unitarian) and Jewish Synagogues. Who's steeple is that beyond the house behind ours?
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