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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 15, 2014 15:51:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 6:56:08 GMT -5
It does feel uncomfortable, but once you enter the US as a non-citizen you give them that information anyway. It does add to the whole privacy-debate though. |
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 16, 2014 8:11:34 GMT -5
Every person in America entered the country as a non-citizen - including the ones who were born there.
But I presume you are talking about immigrants. This facial recognition initiative isn't intended for immigrants, it's intended for all Americans. And if you think it isn't a problem, you haven't really thought it through.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 12:55:18 GMT -5
Including every person born on earth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 6:34:45 GMT -5
What I meant was that if you travel to the US as a non-US-citizen for vacation. Pardon my incomplete statement. And no, I don't think it's not a problem. I think the case of the facial recognition database by the FBI adds to the whole privacy debate in that it provides one more argument for the protection of privacy, which no one in his right mind should argue against anymway.
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Post by raybar on Apr 17, 2014 8:56:17 GMT -5
I can imagine this system and successor systems eventually "knowing" every face on the planet and being able to track every person's every movement. I would not want to live in such a world.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 10:06:26 GMT -5
I can imagine this system and successor systems eventually "knowing" every face on the planet and being able to track every person's every movement. I would not want to live in such a world. it really is a scary utopia - sadly we're probably closer to it than we are led to believe |
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Apr 17, 2014 10:44:35 GMT -5
We aren't just "closer to it"; we've arrived at it. That's what the article is about. They've already started to build their database of faces. Facial recognition software is already in use.
What does it mean in practice?
Well, here's a for instance. At this moment I have a dozen or so fines sitting on my desk beside me. These are all for various minor driving offenses (parking in a no parking area, straying into a bus lane - etc). Each one is for $400 or thereabouts (in Euros). And they're all "automated" - by which I mean they are all fines for offenses detected by CCTV cameras. The camera recognises the car's number plate, cross-references it with the person's name and address, and the fine is sent automatically.
Most of these "offenses" were not really offenses at all. I drove in a bus lane, for example, at 5am, when there were no buses running, and no traffic on the road. A policeman would probably let that go. But the camera makes no exceptions, and the fines are almost impossible to challenge. Some of the fines I've received are for things that simply did not happen. But who do you argue with? If you don't pay the fine you get dragged into court and then YOU have to prove that you didn't commit the offense. Which is virtually impossible. So then you end up paying the fine plus court costs.
Facial recognition will allow the authorities to do exactly the same thing with the public at large. The software recognises "antisocial behavior" - which can be anything from spitting to jay walking or crossing the road in the wrong place. The system identifies the person from their face, and can then send them an automatic fine.
But it's even worse than that. Much worse. When the system identifies a face in the crowd, it not only identifies that person, but pulls up all the details about them that are stored on various databases - from government, police and medical files, to information from their Google usage and their Facebook account. The remote operator - who is usually a lay person, by the way - can see all the person's details on a computer screen - their criminal and arrest record, bank account details, travel history, medical history, political affiliations and so on. And of course it flags individuals who have outstanding warrants, unpaid fines etc., or who are on various lists (such as the FBI list and the "no fly" list) because they have taken part in protests or other campaigns.
The system can then lock on to that individual and "follow" them from one CCTV camera to another (including to "private" CCTV cameras in large stores etc, most of which are now linked to the police grid). It can also follow them RETROSPECTIVELY - ie, their movements caught on CCTV in the past (going back 15-20 years).
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