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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 11:30:04 GMT -5
You know, I don't know a whole lot about politics. This is why I don't post in this forum very often and I also don't talk about politics very often in "the real world". I don't know nearly as much as I should BUT I do know how I feel about what I DO know. I know that I USED to think that if I *were* in to politics that I would lean more toward being a liberal Democrat. That has changed over the past few years. Now I believe I would consider myself more of a conservative Republican...but there are things I don't like about them as well.
Is there a such thing as middle of the road common sense? Is there a party for that? Maybe I have flipped because I don't have a full understanding of either. Or maybe I only hear the extreme left or right because those are who speak the loudest. Here are my views and whay they have changed.
There was a time when I worked a minimum wage job. There was actually a time when I literally worked TWO jobs for about ten years. I had three of my four children by the time I was 21 years old. My parents didn't and don't have a lot of money but both always worked. *I* have worked from the time I was able to. I babysat and did odd jobs from the time I was about 12 or 13 and then when I was 15 I applied and received a work permit and got a job making minimum wage, which at the time I think was about $3.15 an hour.
When I had my children, I never sat around and asked other people for handouts. There were times when I fed my kids oatmeal for dinner because I didn't have enough money for food and I knew oatmeal was filling. I was constantly looking for ways to earn money and support the children that I chose to have. There were a lot of times when I thought it just wasn't fair that I worked so hard and made so little. So, I kept looking for ways to earn more. When I needed something I went out and found the money myself. If I had to work two jobs, then I had to work two jobs. I never wanted and still to this day refuse to be dependent on anyone for what I or my kids might need or want.
I started working at the bank when I was 22 years old. I started at .50 cents above the minimum wage which was $6.50 at the time. So I made $7.00 an hour...and I thought I was something! Not because I thought I made so much but because I knew this job was a way in to making more.
Fast forward to today to save yourselves the boredom.....I have worked HARD, very HARD, to no longer have to work that second job to supplement my income. At the present time I have worked myself from being a teller at the bank to a position in the bank that by all rights is about as high as you can go in the division I am in without being upper management....and I'm not done yet.
I used to look forward to "tax time". I looked forward to getting my refund as I'm sure does everyone who gets some of what they've paid in refunded. As of about 4 years ago I got a big surprise from my accountant (who I've used since I started filing taxes) when I was told I've been put in to the next tax bracket. You know what that means? Thhat means since I have worked my ASS off I'm EXPECTED TO PAY MORE to help support those who haven't. Now if the were still taking the 15% of my pay that they had been, technically I AM paying MORE because obviously 15% of my pay now is considerably more than someone who makes minimum wage. But no, that's not good enough. NOW I'm told I OWE 25% of what *I* earn-and hey, that's just on my base pay. A large portion of my income is bonus. A bonus I EARN by working my ASS off...well, THAT gets taxed at nearly 40%. Why?
So now after I work and they take what they think I *owe* to them...I'm left with 75% of what I've worked for (nevermind that they've taxed the shit out of my bonus income so I'm not really getting the full 75%) now I take what is left and try to live. But wait! They aren't done! Because EVERYTHING I buy or use to live such as food, electric, gas, and water, is taxed AGAIN!
I'm using myself as an example but this is for EVERY person in the country who works or has worked. The thing that kills me is I know a large portion of the money they say I *owe* goes to public aid, etc...and I understand there are people who need help, I really do. I used to be one of them who could have used the help. My oldest daughter needs the help. The difference IS, she works and tries and much like myself is always looking for ways to better herself and to support the children that she chose to have. Her oldest daughter is disabled and can only get minimal therapy because Lauren just doesn't have the money for the "good" kind. As much as I make, I can only help with things she needs so much...if I were able to keep more of the money I EARN I could help more with my own family but instead, I'm told I OWE for people who CHOOSE to be fully dependent on the government. Because somehow they DESERVE more of my money that I have chosen to EARN by working. They need more! When I need more I work for it. I work harder to earn more as do a lot of people only to be penalized for my hard work? I can't help my own kids and grandkids as much as I should be able to because the government says it isn't fair that there are people who I don't know that make less than me?
Illinois is one of the most expensive states to live in. It also has one of the highest levels of people on public aid. See the connection? There needs to be a limit for "helping" others. You help others by teaching them to "help" themselves. You do not give a person more free money simply for choosing to have more children. You tell them you'll help them ONLY if they are also helping themselves. You set limits to the handouts and give them while they need them...not teach them to make a career off of living on the work of others. When you teach them to live off of others this is what they teach those children they're having. It doesn't stop.
So while the liberal part of me is all for helping those in need, the conservative part of me is completely against funding the lazy. It just seems to me that the government almost WANTS people to be dependent on them. It's a form of control. If you don't teach someone how to do it on their own and they NEED you, you have control over them. Unfortunately, there are thousands of people who are okay with that. In my mind it makes them ignorant or lazy or maybe a healthy combination of both. I don't appreciate the government making me a part of that by saying that I OWE them more simply because I choose to work harder. What if we all just chose to sit back and do nothing. What if everyone just chose not to work? The entire country would collapse and we would all be dependent....but maybe that's what they want?
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Post by rmarks1 on Nov 24, 2013 13:19:06 GMT -5
Bravo Tricia! You are one of those people who have made America great. The problem isn't that we should help the poor. The problem is FORCED contributions, taking money from people who have worked for it and giving it to people who haven't. Charitable contributions should be VOLUNTARY. No matter how much taxes go up, the poor won't be paying and neither will the rich. The rich make the laws and they always leave enough loopholes for themselves. It's the hard-working middle class that always gets stuck with the bill.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 14:47:04 GMT -5
Tricia, I understand what you're saying. It's just not as cut and dried as it seems. I have to go out soon, but I'll be back later to elaborate. I'm really glad to see you in the politics forum.
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 16:37:14 GMT -5
Hi Bob,
I really hope that my post didn't come across as me trying to say "Look at me! I'm doing better than so many people!" I wanted to give my background so it was clear that I understand that not everyone is fortunate enough to make as much as I do now. I also have a constant fear of "what if"....what if the bank shut down or got taken over? What if I ended up back at a minimum wage job? It could happen to anyone. Someday I could be back in a position of needing help BUT the fact IS if I HAD to work a minimum wage job, I WOULD. If it's all I could get to support myself I would have to. I don't understand people who think they're OWED something. Why are they so special that they feel entitled to sit back and live on the money that comes from others who work? Most of which have BEEN in their position and worked their way out of it. Honestly, with three kids at 21, I could easily have chosen the government as my lifestyle. I certainly would have qualified. I didn't want to live like that and part of that, if I'm being truthful, is because they don't PAY enough. Who the hell is satisfied living their life like that? Why does the government seem to condone and almost encourage that way of life? It's like some people are so dense that they think they're getting a free ride but really they're being controlled and held down from what they could be.
So what tax bracket do I have to be in to be considered "rich"? As it stands right now I find myself trying to "dumb down" my income. I contribute more to my 401K than I ever have and I also put quite a bit into my Health Saving Account because both of those things are pre tax and it brings down my W2 income which lowers my tax liability. What do you mean by the "rich" don't have to pay the way the middle class does? Does the tax amount owed get lower once you hit a certain amount? Am I just in a crappy bracket right now? Why can't everyone contribute the same percentage no matter what? As I said, a person who makes more but contributing the same percentage of their income is obviously still contributing more...why isn't that fair enough?
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 16:48:35 GMT -5
Hi Lily,
I know not all of it is cut and dry but the part I'm talking about, to me, IS pretty cut and dry. Why do people have to pay a higher percentage when they're worked their way up when really they're already putting in more as 15% of $100000.00 is considerably more than someone who contributes 15% of $25000.00. Why also do they believe that taxing bonus income and over time at a higher rate is fair? Why do they think that it should be fair for everyone? It's not fair that a person should have to contribute more in to a system that takes nothing and GIVES to another person who contributes absolutely nothing.
Kinda like, ...lol....and I just got done scrubbing my floors.....what if the government were to come to your house and say "Ya know, Lily, your house looks so nice. You obviously invest a lot of your time cleaning it. Do you think that's fair to your lazy neighbor whose house is a filthy mess? Yes, Lily, we KNOW that's because they sit out on their lawn drinking beer all day and yelling at passersby, but it doesn't seem fair that you get to live in such a nice home when they don't so we'll tell ya what-You go on over and clean their house FOR them to make it fair. Yes, let them sit and watch you do it. They're entitled to have just a home that looks just as nice as yours, you know. You DO have a choice though! You can sit out on your lawn drinking margaritas and howl at construction workers all day and let your own house go to shit...that way it's still fair. Now you both live in crap!"
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joan
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Post by joan on Nov 24, 2013 17:08:07 GMT -5
I think you've got caught up in hype tricia. For example, you are taxed for schools. You use schools, your kids use schools. You get taxed for public hospitals. There shouldn't be public hospitals? You get taxed for roads. You don't drive anywhere anymore? You get taxed for the War Machine. No comment. You get taxed for farms owned by many wealthy corporations. You don't eat? Food stamps have been cut. Other social programs, cut. What's your beef?
You think your tax money is going for social programs to help sloths? You are wrong. That's not where your tax dollars mainly go. Social Security? I guess you'll never get older. Medicare? You won't need it? Isn't Mylee on Medicare, Medicaid? She should be, she is eligible.
Maybe someone out there thinks "why should I pay for Mylee? Her mother wasn't married, maybe she shouldn't have been born at all, maybe Lauren should have had an...........oh wait, we're against THAT."
You see where you are heading Tricia? And our public monies that go to Fraud.........you think the poor are defrauding anywhere near as much as doctors, medical supply companies, health vans, all services geared to help?
You're being naive.
And this: "Ya know, Lily, your house looks so nice. You obviously invest a lot of your time cleaning it. Do you think that's fair to your lazy neighbor whose house is a filthy mess? Yes, Lily, we KNOW that's because they sit out on their lawn drinking beer all day and yelling at passersby, but it doesn't seem fair that you get to live in such a nice home when they don't so we'll tell ya what-You go on over and clean their house FOR them to make it fair. Yes, let them sit and watch you do it. They're entitled to have just a home that looks just as nice as yours, you know. You DO have a choice though! You can sit out on your lawn drinking margaritas and howl at construction workers all day and let your own house go to shit...that way it's still fair. Now you both live in crap!"
That is ridiculous. A ridiculous, made-up example based on fear & resentment & too much self-congratulations. Disappointing. Something about you seems to have radically changed. Disappointing.
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Post by teri on Nov 24, 2013 17:24:53 GMT -5
Total federal spending on a safety net for the poor costs the average taxpayer about $400 a year, while spending on corporate welfare programs costs the same taxpayer about $1400 a year. (source: CBO figures) where is the outrage over the corporate drain of your tax dollars?
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Post by debutante on Nov 24, 2013 17:56:42 GMT -5
"...should have had an...........oh wait, we're against THAT." Dear Joan: Really?  Please explain how being handicapped is a "lifestyle choice". --Debutante |
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 18:06:21 GMT -5
Hi Joan,
So you feel it's fair then, for a person who makes more to not only PAY more in to the system but to pay a higher percentage of their income toward all of those things? As I said, if everyone were to pay the same rate, the people who are making more would STILL be paying more because 15% of their income is more than that of a person who pays less. Who is the geovernment to tell ME or anyone for that matter that they're OWED because I work? Much less I OWE MORE because I've worked in to a position that pays more? It's not only about the Public Aid portion...it's everything you've mentioned in your post above. Why would I have to contribute more...I don't USE the roads MORE, I don't use the public hospitals MORE, my kids don't go to school MORE than anyone else's do.
Mylee IS on Medicaid and because of that she gets crap medical care. I already mentioned that Lauren needs the help. She also contributes in to the system. I don't know about where you live...I thought you lived in New York...but HERE I see it ALL the time. I have people in my family (some blood and some by marriage) who abuse the Public Aid system and it pisses me off. Maybe that's why I'm so focused on that end of it in my post. It's disgusting to me that a person thinks they're entitled to something for nothing. Never having worked a day in their life to contribute to the system that they use to live on with no plans of ever doing anything for themselves and then posting on Facebook about how crappy the government is because they've cut their food stamps by $11.00 a month. These are healthy, able bodied people! So while I'm having the shit taxed out of my paycheck...money that could be used toward my own family who try and come up short...they're complaining the the government isn't giving them enough. I'm still paying just as much so where that money is going now I have no idea.
It's like this Joan...if Lauren did nothing and lived off the system completely and wasn't responsible and walked around feeling entitled to something that she hadn't earned, she would get no help from me. I will do nothing for someone who does nothing. Every one of my kids knows that. Lauren lives on her own but my other three are still in my house and every one of them knows my philosophy on that. I do not get up every morning and go to work for your ass to lay around my house enjoying what I work to pay for. Every one of my kids works or goes to school. So I think if I'm guilty of too much "Self Congratulations" that's what I would be guilty of congratulating my self on the most. I am most proud not of the fact that I am able to support myself but the fact that I've taught my kids to do the same...and if they can't yet, keep working on it because no one OWES you anything.
As far as Social Security goes...I've paid in to it since I was 15 years old. Why would I not deserve that? That's what it's supposed to be for. I am NOT saying that there aren't people who genuinely need the help. There are. There are people who used to work and are now disabled who I don't mind paying for. There are people who have never worked BECAUSE they are disabled, I don't mind that either. There are people who have had a hard time with life and need help for a while...don't mind if I do. There are tons of different scenarios that would justify someone needing assistance. That's all fine and good but there are just as many who are draining the system just because they feel entitled to do so with no good reason and I don't care if someone knows that it pisses me off because it does. I know quite a few of them. I don't know why you would find that disappointing.
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 18:17:03 GMT -5
Total federal spending on a safety net for the poor costs the average taxpayer about $400 a year, while spending on corporate welfare programs costs the same taxpayer about $1400 a year. (source: CBO figures) where is the outrage over the corporate drain of your tax dollars? Hi Teri, That pisses me off just as much. Maybe it's harder to be angry at a "corporation" or the "corporate world" than it is to be angry at people in general. Listen, this is not just about welfare recipients...and not even all of them anyway....I've already said if someone needs help, fine. It is my opinion...and also a fact...that there are people who make a career of living off of the government. My main complaint is why a person has to PAY more in taxes (for whatever they may be going for) because their income is higher. If everyone paid the same amount the higher incomes would still be contributing more. Why are they penalized further with having to pay a higher percentage? How and why is that fair? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 19:30:57 GMT -5
Hi Lily, Kinda like, ...lol....and I just got done scrubbing my floors.....what if the government were to come to your house and say "Ya know, Lily, your house looks so nice. You obviously invest a lot of your time cleaning it. I wish. Whoever they may be that the govenment sends would be hallucinating. Lol And much of them are. Anyway, I was going to come back with links and such and blah blah blah. I don't think there's much more to say except that I wouldn't want to live in any society that's much more different than ours. My short explanation is that I do it for the children and the elderly poor. Yes, there are cheaters and frauds and lazy bums. But they're everywhere. You don't have lazy cheaters in your place of business that use other folks to do their work for them? I sure have seen it lots. If we stopped everything to weed those folks out, we'd spend all our tax money just doing that. Remember the religion thread? What did Jesus say? "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn" (Matthew 13:30). Well, I don't know about burning the lazy bums, but I know one thing for sure--I in no way would want to be one of them! And, as you said, Tricia, you never know when it's you that might need the helping hand. I know it might be me some day. As John Donne wrote: No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thy friend's Or of thine own were: Any man's death diminishes me, Because I am involved in mankind, And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. |
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Post by teri on Nov 24, 2013 19:54:02 GMT -5
welfare (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)limits receivers to a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime, but some states even shorter periods. there are also mandatory welfare-to-work programs. you have to be in training or in a job to receive benefits.
being poor does NOT equal being lazy
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 20:00:26 GMT -5
Yes, Teri, very true. That was one link I was going to use. However, welfare itself is not the only tax dollars I was myself referencing. There is section 8 housing, low income housing subsidized by the government. In my state there are generations of families that live in those housings forever seems like. But regardless, I stand by what I said.
Oh, and something else. Remember Micronesia where the U.S. tested bombs? And now the U.S. have promised those folks recompense and can live in the U.S. freely? Well, guess what? Hawaii is where they come and the Federal Government has not paid for that. We Hawaii citizens do. And we pay very high taxes here. But nevertheless, I stand by what I said.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 20:15:00 GMT -5
welfare (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)limits receivers to a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime, but some states even shorter periods. there are also mandatory welfare-to-work programs. you have to be in training or in a job to receive benefits. being poor does NOT equal being lazy And by the way, Teri, I don't appreciate being misquoted. I never said that being poor equals to being lazy. But there are lazy bums on the dole. Some are because that's what they've been modeled. Some are because they don't have the education because their parents didn't care if they went to school or not. They come from lazy bum parents. Yes, there are lazy bums who are poor BECAUSE they are lazy bums. However, I don't believe in tossing the baby with the bath water. I was trying to explain why in spite of all that, I still believe in taking care of people who really do need it, in spite of the cheaters. |
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 20:33:30 GMT -5
welfare (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)limits receivers to a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime, but some states even shorter periods. there are also mandatory welfare-to-work programs. you have to be in training or in a job to receive benefits. being poor does NOT equal being lazy Hi Teri, With all due respect, do you think by you're telling me something I'm unaware of by advising me that poor-doesn't equal lazy? If you read my original post...I've BEEN poor. My DAUGHTER I'm quite sure would be considered poor, I know lots of people who I guess would be considered poor. Do you think I think or thought of myself, my daughter or all the others I know who work and don't make much as lazy?....because I don't. They do NOT cut someone off after five years. Maybe in some states but not here. You can get food stamps, section 8, medicaid, etc...for your whole life as long as you don't work too much. I know there are some states that have the mandatory work training...as they should. There are also some states that limit welfare to I believe 6 months at a time...I think New Hampshire is one but I'd have to look it up. Without looking it up I can tell you that New Hampshire has no State Tax or sales tax. Now I would almost bet you that they ARE in fact the state that limits welfare to 6 months and provide mandatory training programs. The people who live there don't have to pay state tax or sales tax because they don't need to help support those who don't choose to work because..that particular state doesn't allow it. I may have focused my post a lot on the whole welfare thing but the truth is it's the government that I think is full of shit. I still don't understand how it could be that a person who has worked to earn more should now be more responsible for paying in to the system than someone who hasn't. I don't know why that's a problem for anyone. |
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 20:46:13 GMT -5
Hi Lily, Kinda like, ...lol....and I just got done scrubbing my floors.....what if the government were to come to your house and say "Ya know, Lily, your house looks so nice. You obviously invest a lot of your time cleaning it. I wish. Whoever they may be that the govenment sends would be hallucinating. Lol And much of them are. Anyway, I was going to come back with links and such and blah blah blah. I don't think there's much more to say except that I wouldn't want to live in any society that's much more different than ours. My short explanation is that I do it for the children and the elderly poor. Yes, there are cheaters and frauds and lazy bums. But they're everywhere. You don't have lazy cheaters in your place of business that use other folks to do their work for them? I sure have seen it lots. If we stopped everything to weed those folks out, we'd spend all our tax money just doing that. Remember the religion thread? What did Jesus say? "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn" (Matthew 13:30). Well, I don't know about burning the lazy bums, but I know one thing for sure--I in no way would want to be one of them! And, as you said, Tricia, you never know when it's you that might need the helping hand. I know it might be me some day. As John Donne wrote: No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thy friend's Or of thine own were: Any man's death diminishes me, Because I am involved in mankind, And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. Hi Lily! Yes, I know that not all people cheat and lie etc...it's just that there seems to be an awful lot of them in the area I'm in. As I said, if I have to pay taxes, I guess, whatever, nothing I can really do about it but I don't know why it is that a person has to pay MORE due to earning more. I've said it over and over again...if a person makes $100,000 a year the 15% they pay is obviously more than the 15% that someone who makes $25,000 per year has to pay in. Why is it okay with some people that once a person hits a certain level of income they are now required to pay in 25% of their income? Everybody keeps ignoring that and focusing more on what I said about the welfare recipients. Which again, I know some people need the help...help them with the 15% that I should be contributing instead of making me contribute more. Also, if people who are so liberal choose to pretend like there aren't people who make a career of the welfare system I guess they can do that...they just shouldn't get so upset with me for choosing not to play make believe. There ARE people who use it because they're lazy and there are A LOT of them. Maybe if that wasn't allowed, some more of that money could go toward those who really need it. People who truly are disabled or people who truly are having a period of hardship. Either way, I don't feel like a person who earns more should be bumped into another "tax bracket" and forced to contribute a higher percentage than everyone else. I am with you though for helping the elderly or the small children who have no choice. I'm fine with that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 20:51:35 GMT -5
Yes, Tricia. The tax system has been the thorn in the butt for folks for eons. And there've been lots of attempts to fix it. Maybe someday they will.
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 20:57:41 GMT -5
Hey Deb,
Is that Jim? If so, he looks so much different than I pictured him. I don't know why, but I always pictured him with dark hair. You are right. Being born disabled is not a life style and that was a poor comparison. Too bad the taxpayers aren't given a choice as to where the portion of their taxes that help the needy should go. I could be wrong but if given a choice between a diabled 5 year old little girl who will never be able to work by no fault of her own, or a 25 year old mother of 6 who doesn't work because she just doesn't feel like it pays enough...I'm thinking the disabled child would get the support. Maybe it's good thing they aren't able to choose as there would be a whole lot of people shit out of luck.
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Post by rmarks1 on Nov 24, 2013 21:03:02 GMT -5
Total federal spending on a safety net for the poor costs the average taxpayer about $400 a year, while spending on corporate welfare programs costs the same taxpayer about $1400 a year. (source: CBO figures) where is the outrage over the corporate drain of your tax dollars? You get no argument from me on corporate welfare Teri. Libertarians are totally against it. Corporate welfare is nothing but theft by people who have enough money to begin with. There is absolutely no excuse for it. If you want to read a great book on the crime of corporate welfare, try "The Great Deformation" by David Stockman. Warning! Read only a little bit at a time or you will get sick. Bob |
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Post by teri on Nov 24, 2013 21:10:28 GMT -5
NATIONWIDE, HALF OF ALL FAMILIES on AFDC leave within a year, and 70 percent leave within two years.
Just 15 percent of AFDC families stay on welfare for five years or more continuously.
the economy does not work fairly for everybody. awesome that people get a step up when they need it.
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 21:46:52 GMT -5
NATIONWIDE, HALF OF ALL FAMILIES on AFDC leave within a year, and 70 percent leave within two years. Just 15 percent of AFDC families stay on welfare for five years or more continuously. the economy does not work fairly for everybody. awesome that people get a step up when they need it. I guess all of those who have lived downtown in the housing projects as well as throughout the suburbs rent free or for a reduced rate all of their lives missed that memo. Someone should probably inform them that typically that's not what they do. |
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Post by debutante on Nov 24, 2013 22:33:03 GMT -5
Hey Deb, Is that Jim? If so, he looks so much different than I pictured him. I don't know why, but I always pictured him with dark hair. You are right. Being born disabled is not a life style and that was a poor comparison. Too bad the taxpayers aren't given a choice as to where the portion of their taxes that help the needy should go. I could be wrong but if given a choice between a diabled 5 year old little girl who will never be able to work by no fault of her own, or a 25 year old mother of 6 who doesn't work because she just doesn't feel like it pays enough...I'm thinking the disabled child would get the support. Maybe it's good thing they aren't able to choose as there would be a whole lot of people shit out of luck. Dear Tricia: Yes -- both my children were light blonde as toddlers and became dark blonde as they grew up. This photo was taken a month ago -- we were in Bueno Beef and I snapped a few with my cell phone. I don't usually post photos of Jim because I'm very protective in regard to him. The thing is -- I don't feel the disabled should be grouped together with those welfare recipients who, as you've already pointed out -- often make a "lifestyle" of the system. Looking at Jim (or your Mylee) I don't see how anyone could say they didn't have a right to be born or that they shouldn't be assisted. These people didn't have a choice to be born with disabilities and Joan inadvertently hit a nerve. When Jim was a little boy, he had a classroom aide. I can't begin to tell you how many parents of healthy children openly resented the fact that he had what they perceived as "extra attention". I would have traded the aide for normalcy in a heart beat. Still...it's really weird how people seem to think that these children chose these challenges. Anyhow...Jim has a very sweet disposition and I am very proud of him, despite his disabilities. --Debutante |
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Post by teri on Nov 24, 2013 22:41:50 GMT -5
$14,500 a year. That’s what a full-time, minimum-wage job pays. not enough to subsist on.
howze about get angry that people are not being paid a living wage?
basically your tax dollars subsidize corporations like walmart and mcdonalds who pay so little to their employees that they have to apply for foodstamps to feed their families .
in fact, mcdonalds, walmart advise employees on how to apply for foodstamps when they get hired.....
ll their unopened xmas gifts for cash on ebay or craiglist to se....here are some other gems from ronald mcdonald to employees:
"Go on at least two vacations a year. Apparently this cuts your heart attack risk by 50%!
"Break your food into pieces. If you take smaller bites you'll probably eat less."
"Eat cheese. But only small bites of cheese."
"Sing out loud to lower blood pressure."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 22:45:52 GMT -5
Hey Deb, Is that Jim? If so, he looks so much different than I pictured him. I don't know why, but I always pictured him with dark hair. You are right. Being born disabled is not a life style and that was a poor comparison. Too bad the taxpayers aren't given a choice as to where the portion of their taxes that help the needy should go. I could be wrong but if given a choice between a diabled 5 year old little girl who will never be able to work by no fault of her own, or a 25 year old mother of 6 who doesn't work because she just doesn't feel like it pays enough...I'm thinking the disabled child would get the support. Maybe it's good thing they aren't able to choose as there would be a whole lot of people shit out of luck. Dear Tricia: Yes -- both my children were light blonde as toddlers and became dark blonde as they grew up. This photo was taken a month ago -- we were in Bueno Beef and I snapped a few with my cell phone. I don't usually post photos of Jim because I'm very protective in regard to him. The thing is -- I don't feel the disabled should be grouped together with those welfare recipients who, as you've already pointed out -- often make a "lifestyle" of the system. Looking at Jim (or your Mylee) I don't see how anyone could say they didn't have a right to be born or that they shouldn't be assisted. These people didn't have a choice to be born with disabilities and Joan inadvertently hit a nerve. When Jim was a little boy, he had a classroom aide. I can't begin to tell you how many parents of healthy children openly resented the fact that he had what they perceived as "extra attention". I would have traded the aide for normalcy in a heart beat. Still...it's really weird how people seem to think that these children chose these challenges. Anyhow...Jim has a very sweet disposition and I am very proud of him, despite his disabilities. --Debutante I'm glad you posted that Deb. I often wondered because you hardly post about him anymore. You have a wonderful close family. And so does Tricia. |
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 22:50:46 GMT -5
 ...And here's my little Mylee who also has a sweet disposition. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 22:57:12 GMT -5
Mylee is the sweetest little doll. As far as Jim, who is a really good looking guy as well, I don't get it that Joan had said that he shouldn't have been born. I didn't read that at all. And I went back to see if I missed it, and I still didn't get that. Deb, Joan really admiires and likes you a lot. I think that the fact that she didn't respond to you, makes me feel that she feels kind of hurt that you would think that of her. And not to mention, she doen't get on line here all that much anymore. Which actually kind of irks me.
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Post by debutante on Nov 24, 2013 23:03:30 GMT -5
Dear Tricia,
She's beautiful!
--Debutante
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Post by tricia on Nov 24, 2013 23:18:18 GMT -5
Lily and Deb,
Thank you! Actually, I meant to mention Deb, that Jim is a good looking kid and I'm kinda surprised you haven't posted about any kind of girl trouble with him as I can see the girls his age disabled or not wanting to chase after him. My hope for Mylee is that some day she will be able to function even half as well as your Jim does. I would love to hear her say "Mommy"...okay, I would love to hear her say "Grammy" but I hope for Mommy first for Lauren. I've gotten her as far as "mamamamaaaaa" Like Lady Gaga does in the Poker face song. lol
I also wanted to mention I don't think Joan was saying that Mylee shouldn't have been born. I think she was giving me an example of extreme thinking. That some people could say they shouldn't have to help support Mylee for Lauren because Lauren chose to have her but the fact is Lauren works and does as much as she's capable of at the moment. She has put herself back through school and obtained her GED. With all the trouble she gave me as a teenager, she didn't get much of an education, so it took her a couple of years but she kept at it until she was ready to take the test and she passed. She is now enrolling in college for criminal justice and...I can't believe I'm saying this...she wants to be a police officer or work at the Juvenile Detention Center. I think Joan read my post as me saying I'm somehow better than a person who needs Public Aid but that's not what I meant at all. I was and am still talking about the taxes that I'm forced to pay. It isn't fair and I wouldn't think it was fair for anyone on Public Aid to work their way off of it and be forced to pay more in to the system for doing so. They should be rewarded not penalized. Anyway, I'm done with the whole conversation. Whatever I say, I'm tired.
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Post by debutante on Nov 24, 2013 23:36:20 GMT -5
Dear Tricia;
Yes -- Jim attracts a lot of attention from young women. But he's never out alone -- so we (knock on wood) have avoided problems for the most part. Only once (that I recollect) some young man got bent out of shape that his girlfriend was eyeing Jim up and wanted to start a fight. I stepped between him and my son and basically told the guy off. He backed down rather quickly.
Also, a couple of Alison's female friends had to be informed that he's not "available" in that context too -- but usually it was because they met him unexpectedly and didn't know he was autistic. Alison doesn't really tell people about Jim until she knows them very well. There were too many bad experiences when she was young -- and she's never been able to trust people with that information unless she feels they can accept him. She's also very protective toward her brother.
--Debutante
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joan
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Post by joan on Nov 25, 2013 9:08:41 GMT -5
tricia said: "I also wanted to mention I don't think Joan was saying that Mylee shouldn't have been born. I think she was giving me an example of extreme thinking. That some people could say they shouldn't have to help support Mylee for Lauren because Lauren chose to have her but the fact is Lauren works and does as much as she's capable of at the moment."
Exactly. I'm very glad to see we are still in tune, tricia. Both children, Jim & Mylee, are beautiful. I have nothing against them being alive & being as fulfilled as they can be, no matter who is footing the bill. They deserve nothing but the best because they are alive.
I was only able to skim the responses, as there is so much to read. I will read everything in depth, but I may not have more to say. I have decided something though, it's personal, but here goes: "We Are Our Brother's Keeper".
In other words, the complete opposite of Bob. 'Nuff said for now.
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