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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 16:14:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 17:11:41 GMT -5
I decided to delete the post where I asked a question so as not to confuse the topic.
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Post by raybar on Oct 25, 2013 0:08:51 GMT -5
Earlier I started to say that the brief quotations in the article weren't much to go on. But then I noticed a link to the broadcast, and didn't post it.
Having now seen the whole interview (or at least all that made it into the program), I can say for the thousandth time that brief quotes out of context often give a false impression. The quotes in the article - a couple sentences - were from a segment on spirituality. It was all perfectly fine, and anyone who got upset by it needs to lighten up.
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joan
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Post by joan on Oct 25, 2013 10:17:54 GMT -5
I believe in the Universe. I am in awe of the beautiful complexity of nature. I'm glad I got to see it despite the pain of existence.
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Post by faskew on Oct 27, 2013 10:41:10 GMT -5
Yeah, Oprah was trying to be nice. But it does come across as condescending. And for fundamentalists, it's insulting to say that god ISN'T a bearded guy up in the sky. 8->
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joan
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Post by joan on Oct 27, 2013 14:31:09 GMT -5
Joel Osteen said the most awesome, incredible thing today. He said God's love is unconditional towards any color; any ethnicity; any religion; and even if you're gay or straight. He said you will be very surprised when you get to Heaven as to who you will meet there---the people you would never expect. He didn't come out & say "You don't need Jesus as your Saviour" but that's what his sermon said.
I'm hoping for a backlash from other Evangelicals, just for the fun of it. Lily, it was sermon # 595 in case you want to hear it.
I was delighted. He said God loves the atheists too. Unconditional Love, don't judge your fellow is what he said.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 14:57:44 GMT -5
Thank you for that, Joan. I actually don't watch relgious programs on TV. However, on the topic of evangelists on TV, I have a relative that really likes Joseph Prince. His home church is in Singapore.
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joan
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Post by joan on Oct 27, 2013 15:40:40 GMT -5
I have watched Joseph Prince. He has a very eager, enthusiastic personality, & seems personable. I only have watched him in small doses though.
My new favorite is Joyce Meyer. She actually does say very helpful things & I enjoy her personality as well. She would Never have said what Joel said today, though. Never. Joel has been leading up to actually saying these things for a long time now, & has finally said it. He will back down when pressured: i.e. about gays he shyly says "Well, maybe it isn't God's best" but he won't condemn.
No one can give the Whole Truth. Just bits & pieces flavored by their own Points of View. Discernment is always needed, in any situation.
So, I guess you see I'm not exactly a "rabid" atheist although I understand & maybe, just maybe, once was. However, I always held respect for the beliefs of others; just want the same in return but it seems that's asking a lot from certain individuals.
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Post by tricia on Nov 8, 2013 23:26:02 GMT -5
I love Joel Osteen. I actually bought one of his books for Lauren and I'm reading one by Rick Warren...who I've decided that I don't care for as much as Joel Osteen. It's so funny because Lauren has been reading this book and is so excited to call and tell me what she's learned from it. The other day she told me no matter how bad I felt I should smile even if it's fake because if I do that God will see me trying even though it's hard and he'll turn my fake smile into a real one.
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Post by raybar on Nov 9, 2013 8:23:58 GMT -5
The other day she told me no matter how bad I felt I should smile even if it's fake because if I do that God will see me trying even though it's hard and he'll turn my fake smile into a real one. That's called biofeedback. We smile when we feel happy but we also feel happy when we smile. No gods are needed, just a nervous system.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 11:54:32 GMT -5
The other day she told me no matter how bad I felt I should smile even if it's fake because if I do that God will see me trying even though it's hard and he'll turn my fake smile into a real one. That's called biofeedback. We smile when we feel happy but we also feel happy when we smile. No gods are needed, just a nervous system. The poetry of atheism. Who can resist?
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Post by tricia on Nov 9, 2013 12:36:00 GMT -5
Hi Raybar,
I *know* what it is...my oldest daughter is very impressionable and I very purposely picked out that book for her. I have been trying in every way possible to help change her thought process that has become an anxiety provoking habit she has formed with negative thinking and making up things to worry about.
Joel Osteen (I'm not sure if you've ever seen him speak) is an excellent speaker. He is religious, yes, but I find him to be more of a motivational speaker. My daughter has been having a really rough time and needs help replacing the scarey and horrible thoughts bouncing around in her head. I don't know if you remember me from a while back or my talking about her when she was a kid (oooh she was a horrible kid) but she is 23 now. She has two children one of which was born with a seizure disorder that has caused her to be autistic and one that is so bad that deep down we all worry about the fact that she may not outlive us. This alone is cause for stress for my daughter but she was kinda thrown over the edge this past March when she experienced something so traumatic that it literally makes my stomach hurt, my throat close and my eyes well up even typing this. Just writing this makes the moment of her calling me at work sobbing so hard that I couldn't understand the few and far between words she was trying to get out as well as everything that followed come back so vividly.
Since she was the one who experienced this and took the brunt of everything, you can imagine that as badly as this affects me months later, it's 10x worse for her. Anyway...I try as hard as I can to help her change her thinking pattern. When I see or hear someone else that I think is good for her I make sure I introduce that to her as well. If it's bio feedback making her smile that's fine. If she believes it's a God doing it...that's fine too. If it truly is one or the other doesn't make a difference to me as long as she's able to smile.
I have everyone in my house (and Lauren too...she lives on her own about 10 minutes from me)saying "If you want it...say it OUT LOUD!" lol....as Joel Osteen says, if YOU don't talk to yourself, youself is gonna talk to YOU and it's not usually very nice. Meaning actually *hearing* things even if you are the one saying it really affects the way you think. It helps to replace the silent negative thoughts in your head by speaking the positive thoughts out loud even if you're the only one listening. If there happens to be a God who is also listening that's even better. Doesn't hurt a thing.
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Post by raybar on Nov 9, 2013 13:04:23 GMT -5
Yes, Tricia, I do remember.
Very sorry to hear that you daughter is in such distress.
I hope I speak for all the Factoids when I offer whatever little I can do by way of discussion here or by email (address in member list). Do not hesitate to contact me if there is anything I can do for you.
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Post by tricia on Nov 9, 2013 14:24:46 GMT -5
Thank you so much...that is so nice of you! We're okay...she'll be okay. I don't want to come on here and make anyone feel bad. Everyone has or will experience something traumatic at some point in their life. Some things are just harder to get over. I guess some things you will never get all the way over but find ways to move on. Since that time in March, I just think about things differently. I watch Oprah's Super Soul Sunday if it's at all possible every week. I actually look forward to it..lol...I'm so lame. I mentioned I'm reading a book by Rick Warren who has his ministry in every country in the world! I have to say...I really don't like or agree with some of the things in his book or his way of thinking. I'm not done with the book though so maybe it'll all come together for me as I read more. As a matter of fact I had bought this book with the intention of having Lauren read it after me but I'm not so sure I want to do that as while Joel Osteen is religious, as I said, he's very motivational. Rick Warren focuses more on the religious aspect kind of to me almost in a threatening way....God doesn't like when you do this, God thinks of people who do that as evil, You can please God by doing.... etc.... I don't like threats of God not liking me if I don't live every waking moment trying to please him or be God like. I'm not God like. If God wanted me to be a God he should have made me one. I just don't want Lauren reading that and taking it in that way. Joel Osteen is more "God loves you no matter what and here are the tools he gave you to be happy". Funny story about when I realized Lauren had been reading the book and really taking in what she was reading. About three weeks ago I was going to buy my license plate sticker and she called me. I told her that I had to let her go because I was walking in and the people at the currency exchange are usually rude so I needed to get off the phone incase I needed to be rude back. She responded by saying "No, Mom...don't let them steal your power! Let them be rude all they want but if you respond back to them that way you're giving them your power and letting them bring you down to thier level." I started laughing and said "I see you've started reading the book I gave you for your Birthday." I got my sticker and no one was rude...I lost no power that day.
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Post by raybar on Nov 9, 2013 16:09:45 GMT -5
I've seen Osteen on television a few times. Good speaker in the (if I'm remembering correctly) "feel good" mode.
I don't know whether I've seen Warren but I am familiar with his Saddleback Church, so perhaps I have.
"God doesn't like when you do this, God thinks of people who do that as evil, You can please God by doing ..." How does he (or anyone) know what god wants? How does he (or anyone) presume to speak for god?
Lauren is right about not being rude back. "Kill them with kindness" is Molly approach. It really makes them crazy.
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Post by tricia on Nov 9, 2013 21:23:30 GMT -5
That's the same thing I think when I read his stuff, Raybar. Like who are *you* to think you're speaking for God? What he does, though, is takes things that Jesus says in the bible and interprets it as "This is what he meant by that"....To me, if anyone could accurately interpret the bible, they would BE God. Which of course leads me to more questions...like, if God truly wrote the bible (thru others) and wanted people to follow his rules or understand things, etc...why make it so freakin confusing? When I want my kids to DO something I don't play word games. I spell it out...THIS is what I want. This is why while I believe in God...or something....I don't believe it in the way I think a lot of people do. But who knows really, I think every one probably has thier own personal spin on things.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 23:18:56 GMT -5
Oh, my gosh, Tricia. Don't even get me started. That there are different ways to believe is the understatement of the year. We in Hawaii have been going through a special session to pass a bill on Marriage Equality and a large part of Christian Churches make me want to puke. They are ugly, nasty, bigoted, self-righteous a-holes. And I don't feel that way because they are against same sex marriage but because of the arrogance of knowing exactly how God thinks and feels about the the topic and how it's absolutely there right in the Bible. They have been hateful and disgusting outside the capitol where legislatures have been hearing testimony from over 5,000 opponents and pro-equal marriage folks. The Christian pastors that have come to state their pro-same-sex marriage stance have been shouted down by the neatherdal, creepy, so-called Christians. They have been bused in by their churches. To be honest with you, even though I am a Christian believer, I don't belong to any church because I am too much of a cynic because of what I believe most of them don't actually believe but pretend to for the sake of fitting in and being viewed in a positive way. Or because it fits their authoritarian tyrant type personalties who believe they are always right in everything.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 23:36:02 GMT -5
If interested, here's more about what I've been saying. I've read the book and it resonates with me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 14:45:36 GMT -5
I did mention that there were Christian pastors that came to the Capitol in defense of equal marriage and were shouted down by other Christian denominations. Here is an opinion piece from today's newspaper that tells the other side the side of those in favor. This one is from an Episocpalian dean of a Episcopalian church in Honolulu. Most of the United Church of Christ churches also feel the same way. And others that I can't name because I really don't know.
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Post by tricia on Nov 11, 2013 13:13:26 GMT -5
Hi Lily! I think Illinois just passed something that allows gay marriage now, well, as of January 1st, I think anyway. I really don't know what I think of it. I guess it doesn't matter to me enough either way to really have thought about it too much. I know my basic thoughts on it though but I want to be sure I word it properly and don't sound like a jerk so I'm gonna have to do that when I have more time.
I'm off work today for Veteran's Day but of course I brought work home with me so I'm sitting here underwriting loans on my "day off". Still better than being at the office I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 15:53:38 GMT -5
Hi Lily! I think Illinois just passed something that allows gay marriage now, well, as of January 1st, I think anyway. I really don't know what I think of it. I guess it doesn't matter to me enough either way to really have thought about it too much. I know my basic thoughts on it though but I want to be sure I word it properly and don't sound like a jerk so I'm gonna have to do that when I have more time. I'm off work today for Veteran's Day but of course I brought work home with me so I'm sitting here underwriting loans on my "day off". Still better than being at the office I guess. Oh, I almost forgot that you work with mortgages at a bank. I used to work in a mortgage department in a bank, but as support staff, not orignating mortgages. Regarding gay marriage, I don't care if anyone disagrees with it. What gets my goat is the religious excuse. That ticks me off big time.
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