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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 4, 2014 13:19:50 GMT -5
Bloomberg did a lot of things to increase the Nanny State while he was mayor. But I think he is right about this.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 7:48:30 GMT -5
Regardless of the point this person is advancing, that's some really dodgy statistics. 96% of all campaign contributions does not equal 96% of all faculty. Since the actual percentage of faculty who donated to either candidate is not given, we don't know how many faculty members actually supported Obama.
However, I have a problem with the larger argument made in that article. The author falls victim to the classic American manichean worldview, where every political position can be neatly broken down into belonging either to the "liberal" or the "conservative" camp.
As somebody who grew up in a multipolar political system I find this absolutely laughable. Even in a multiparty system you will see two people with different worldviews supporting the same party, usually for completely different reasons. In a system where there are only ever two viable political candidates, this would only be even more pronounced.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 12:06:30 GMT -5
Bob, you're the last person who should be arguing about intolerance. You are the only person on FACTS who consistently write posts and/or post articles against other people's views, politics and philosophes that you personally don't agree with. which other memberss reply to but don't initiate these type of posts. Your latest goodie was posting the article about the grave with dozens of infant bones that apparently nuns mudered. Just showing how evil religion is, right?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 16:43:20 GMT -5
Bob, you're the last person who should be arguing about intolerance. You are the only person on FACTS who consistently write posts and/or post articles against other people's views, politics and philosophes that you personally don't agree with. which other memberss reply to but don't initiate these type of posts. Yes, Lily, I argue against views that I think are false. But I don't try to shut other people up and keep them from expressing their views. That is what is happening in colleges today. People with viewpoints different from the majority are being prevented from speaking. No. Showing how this particular group of nuns did an evil thing. Would you prefer that this information be suppressed? Bob
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Post by joan on Jun 5, 2014 16:56:19 GMT -5
"That is what is happening in colleges today. People with viewpoints different from the majority are being prevented from speaking." Read more: unfacts.freeforums.net/post/9307/quote/1098?page=1#ixzz33nudEhsDWrong. It happened in my day too. We would not tolerate pro-Vietnam war speech, ROTC, anti-feminist. The situation was so extreme *I* feel (I was an SDS activist) we were warranted. Have you forgotten: "There is Nothing New Under the Sun"? Or do you just like to blame the young 'uns like the average old coot? I confess: I have a very hard time conversing with you Bob. It's a strain to keep "a civil tongue in my head" when I do, so I find it best to avoid speaking with you at all. Perhaps it is my loss, I tend to think it's in the interest of sanity.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 17:26:13 GMT -5
"That is what is happening in colleges today. People with viewpoints different from the majority are being prevented from speaking." Read more: unfacts.freeforums.net/post/9307/quote/1098?page=1#ixzz33nudEhsDWrong. It happened in my day too. We would not tolerate pro-Vietnam war speech, ROTC, anti-feminist. The situation was so extreme *I* feel (I was an SDS activist) we were warranted. Would you have also protested in the 1950's when McCarthyism was running rampant and everyone on the left was being silenced? Free speech means everyone gets a chance to speak. There is no such thing as free speech for me but not for anyone with contrary views. Yes Joan, you are right here. There is nothing new under the Sun, though sometimes I wish there were. But it's not just the young ones. Administration and Faculty members are also participating in suppression of "unacceptable" ideas. I don't have a hard time talking to you Joan. I'm sorry if my opinions upset you, but I have to keep saying what I believe to be true. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:39:02 GMT -5
Translation: It doesn't matter to me what anybody thinks or feels. I'm going to stay just as obnoxious as it's my right to be. So, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 17:49:36 GMT -5
Translation: It doesn't matter to me what anybody thinks or feels. I'm going to stay just as obnoxious as it's my right to be. So, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. But I do care what other people think. That's why I'm on a discussion board! I want to know what other people think and, more important, why they think that way. How is that "obnoxious? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:02:11 GMT -5
Bob, the only thing you seen "care" to about is how fast and well you can come up with a link or answer refuting what the last guy said. You honestly seem to care about "winning" more than anything else. You may not think of yourself that way, but that's what it is. You really didn't care to take in what Joan said at all. And I don't think she was exaggerating at all when she described how unpleasant it is to debate with you. You don't care, and that's just the way it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 19:34:19 GMT -5
Bob, it could very well be me that folks think is opinionated and obnoxious. That wouldn't surprise me. We don't always see ourselves as others do. I just wish it was easier to talk to you and get you to even only a little bit try to see the other side having a genuine viewpoint once in a while rather than just seeing them as being stubborn and wrong.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 20:18:40 GMT -5
Bob, the only thing you seen "care" to about is how fast and well you can come up with a link or answer refuting what the last guy said. When I think something is wrong, I say so and I provide evidence to back it up. Why is that bad? If I am wrong (and of course I have been) other people can post links refuting what I said.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 20:26:42 GMT -5
Bob, it could very well be me that folks think is opinionated and obnoxious. That wouldn't surprise me. We don't always see ourselves as others do. I just wish it was easier to talk to you and get you to even only a little bit try to see the other side having a genuine viewpoint once in a while rather than just seeing them as being stubborn and wrong. Of course there are other genuine viewpoints besides my own. But all viewpoints have to pass the test of truth. I will change my opinions whenever there is sufficient evidence presented. I've done it before and I will do it again. What I won't do is change my mind if no evidence is presented. Lily, if you don't like my posts on political topics, why read them? Just read my posts on the Social board where I post on nice topics, like Dilbert. We've always got along on the Social board without any problems. Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 5, 2014 20:30:23 GMT -5
You two should get a room. A big room. Maybe an airplane hangar.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 20:41:14 GMT -5
You two should get a room. A big room. Maybe an airplane hangar. We do have a big room. It's called the internet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 20:42:27 GMT -5
NO! I'm not saying you have to change your opinions. I'm saying it's the way you communicate to those who have differing views. You make it sound like they're stupid, and you have all the right answers. They're not your students. These are people who come here voluntarily and should get some consideration that they do so. Ask more questions before jumping to defend your side. There may be some points that you really might have in common. That's what's wrong today. Folks are just detemined to see one side only and won't budge. Isn't that what you don't like about religion?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 20:45:26 GMT -5
You two should get a room. A big room. Maybe an airplane hangar. Hahaha. Are you implying we're boring you?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 20:51:26 GMT -5
I'd better cut this out because before you know it, I'll become the Grand Poobah of the Planet Igor.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 5, 2014 20:57:55 GMT -5
NO! I'm not saying you have to change your opinions. I'm saying it's the way you communicate to those who have differing views. You make it sound like they're stupid, and you have all the right answers. They're not your students. These are people who come here voluntarily and should get some consideration that they do so. Ask more questions before jumping to defend your side. There may be some points that you really might have in common. That's what's wrong today. Folks are just detemined to see one side only and won't budge. Isn't that what you don't like about religion? Okay Lily. I hear you (I think). I'll see what I can do. Thanks. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 1:06:52 GMT -5
Would you have also protested in the 1950's when McCarthyism was running rampant and everyone on the left was being silenced? Free speech means everyone gets a chance to speak. There is no such thing as free speech for me but not for anyone with contrary views. Is there a reason to suspect that people in US colleges are not allowed to speak their minds? "Many university professors support the US Democratic Party" does not strike me as alarming evidence that young people's political opinions are being suppressed on a large scale, as you are claiming.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 6, 2014 8:23:18 GMT -5
Would you have also protested in the 1950's when McCarthyism was running rampant and everyone on the left was being silenced? Free speech means everyone gets a chance to speak. There is no such thing as free speech for me but not for anyone with contrary views. Is there a reason to suspect that people in US colleges are not allowed to speak their minds? Yes. Read the article. That's not what Bloomberg was saying. His point was that when the vast majority of professors have the same political orientation, students will not be exposed to other viewpoints. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 5:17:44 GMT -5
That's not what Bloomberg was saying. His point was that when the vast majority of professors have the same political orientation, students will not be exposed to other viewpoints. Bob But there is no evidence that they all hold the exact same political views, only that they support one political party instead of the other. There is also no evidence that they are only expose students to their own political views. Why do you assume that university professors are incapable of exposing students to views other than their own? Do you personally feel that you were indoctrinated by your studies?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 8, 2014 9:51:47 GMT -5
That's not what Bloomberg was saying. His point was that when the vast majority of professors have the same political orientation, students will not be exposed to other viewpoints. Bob But there is no evidence that they all hold the exact same political views, only that they support one political party instead of the other. There is also no evidence that they are only expose students to their own political views. If they support one political party, it is likely that their political views are similar. And when they expose students to other political views, the tendency will be to put them in a bad light. Because I've experienced it. In elementary and junior high school, yes the attempt was made. It was countered by indoctrination from my parents. The high school and college I went to had a predominantly left-wing staff, so the indoctrination was the same as at home. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 5:56:17 GMT -5
But there is no evidence that they all hold the exact same political views, only that they support one political party instead of the other. There is also no evidence that they are only expose students to their own political views. If they support one political party, it is likely that their political views are similar. Similar to what? Are you claiming that anybody who supports a political party agrees with all of that political party's positions? On what evidence do you base that claim? Weren't your parents hardcore Stalinists? Are you telling me that the majority of US professors are Stalinist communists?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 10, 2014 13:19:50 GMT -5
If they support one political party, it is likely that their political views are similar. Similar to what? Are you claiming that anybody who supports a political party agrees with all of that political party's positions? You would be amazed at the similarities between hardcore Stalinism and left-wing liberalism. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 8:09:06 GMT -5
Remember how you claimed that postmodern Marxists were going to destroy Western civilization, or how environmentalists were genocidal? This is just another instance of you going stark raving mad over left-wing politics.
I could say that I'm surprised... but, given how you've distorted and twisted facts in the past to equate all modern leftist thought with (your former belief in) Stalinism, I'm really not.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 12, 2014 9:41:25 GMT -5
Remember how you claimed that postmodern Marxists were going to destroy Western civilization, or how environmentalists were genocidal? This is just another instance of you going stark raving mad over left-wing politics. Well, I could point out that postmodern Marxists are undermining belief in logic and objectivity, and that is undermining Western civilization. And evidence clearly shows a sharp rise in deaths from malaria right after DDT was banned following the anti-DDT campaign from environmentalists. But what you are doing here is simply a Red Herring. And an Ad Hominem. Please note that despite our many disagreements over issues, I have never attacked you personally. I could say that I'm surprised at your resort to Ad Hominem attacks...but given that you have no facts to support your arguments, I'm really not. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 13:15:27 GMT -5
Well, I could point out that postmodern Marxists are undermining belief in logic and objectivity, and that is undermining Western civilization. You could. And it would be a ridiculous hyperbole unfettered from verifiable evidence, just like your repeated attempts to equate all forms of liberalism and left-wing politics to Stalinism. What argument? That I "would be amazed at the simiarities hardcore Stalinism and left-wing liberalism"? That these alleged "similarities" (that you have so far failed to substantiate, if I may add) constitute evidence that you were personally brainwashed into Marxism by a collusion of your parents and left-wing college professors? Why don't you first explain how supporting a political party necessarily and logically leads college professors to brainwash their students into supporting their own political beliefs? And why you aren't worried about, say, business owners (the majority of whom are Republican Party supporters) doing the same? Starting with the author of the article you linked to, ex-NYC Mayor Bloomberg.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 13:20:16 GMT -5
Which brings me to this question: Bob, are you still a hardcore Stalinist? How's your struggle against capitalism these days?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 12, 2014 14:29:16 GMT -5
Well, I could point out that postmodern Marxists are undermining belief in logic and objectivity, and that is undermining Western civilization. You could. And it would be a ridiculous hyperbole unfettered from verifiable evidence, just like your repeated attempts to equate all forms of liberalism and left-wing politics to Stalinism. Ad Hominem presented without any supporting evidence. Well both engage in Ad Hominem attacks against any opposition, for example. Where did I ever say that they constituted evidence? You made that one up. And I never said that an upbringing constitutes brainwashing. You made that one up too. I did. Perhaps you missed the quote from John Stewart Mill in one of the above posts. It's difficult for people to present with equal force beliefs contrary to their own. Because business owners are not teachers, are they? All Bloomberg was doing was presenting his views during a graduation ceremony. It was probably the only contrary opinion the graduates heard during their entire school year. Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 12, 2014 14:31:54 GMT -5
Which brings me to this question: Bob, are you still a hardcore Stalinist? How's your struggle against capitalism these days? Dammit McAnswer, you found me out! Yes, I am still a hardcore Stalinist pretending to be a Libertarian so I can more easily sow dissent against the capitalist dogs. Bob
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