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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 2:33:34 GMT -5
Okay. Gotcha. I wasn't aware that fat people didn't have rights. And handicapped children are victimized, therefore gay children should be victimized too. Obviously I couldn't disagree with you more, but there you go.
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 3:08:07 GMT -5
Dear Zak:
You weren't aware that Dances with Fat has a right to walk down a public street without being egged? Read her blog...read the comments by other posters. The discrimination against the overweight is quite vicious. To be honest, until I read her blog -- I wasn't even aware that it was as bad as that.
So, because homosexual children are victimized it's okay to totally ignore the victimization of handicapped children and champion the rights of ONLY the former group? Homosexual children count for more than handicapped children in terms of victimization? Why? Does being handicapped make you less human? You've actually given me weapon that can be turned on you in the context of this argument -- you realize that don't you? But I'll be kind here and say outright I don't think that's what you meant.
The whole issue is PASSION as I've stated many times in this conversation. Why is that one group so important in society compared to the others? What makes this entire society so PASSIONATE about gays and not about other groups who are equally discriminated against? In addition the gays can speak for themselves. The handicapped (as Tricia pointed out) often can't speak at all.
It's just absurd to worry about sex when people can't see, or talk, or walk, or feed themselves, or clean themselves after toileting. It's a matter of perspective and priorities.
Sex is just sex. You can live without it.
The handicapped (if severe enough) can't live at all without help.
I know you think I hate gays. I don't. I do think they are self-absorbed. I think they believe their sex life is the most important thing in the world. Sorry -- it's not. To me, it's far more important that children who need aides in school to feed them and help them go to the toilet get them. Given limited resources, I think this cause is far more worthy of the PASSION of people who claim they want to do "good" in the world.
--Debutante
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 4:26:35 GMT -5
Dear Zak:
Because you're living in Spain, someone I know suggested I post this for you.
Here's something relevant to the issue of victimization or "Bullying", if you prefer. This incident took place at a Chick-Fil-A, a little over a year ago. The driver is enraged because this business, owned by a Christian man, donates money to an organization that disagrees with the "gay lifestyle".
So here's his "advocacy" -- so eager was he to champion gay rights that he stepped all over this young girl's rights.
Note that after all this vitriol spewing forth -- the guy wants to make sure the viewers know HE certainly isn't gay. He's just a gosh darn super liberal!
He was fired the next day by his company.
Anyhow...so...what do you think? Was he "right" to trample this poor girl's rights so he could post a video and impress to get "snaps" from his liberal buddies? Ego did him in though, he didn't stop to think how his employers would react.
Suppose we just consider protecting victimized children under the banner of "anti-bullying". Would that please you even though the issue of sexual orientation wasn't considered, but rather just "bullying"?
--Debutante
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 9:34:18 GMT -5
Okay. Gotcha. I wasn't aware that fat people didn't have rights. And handicapped children are victimized, therefore gay children should be victimized too. Obviously I couldn't disagree with you more, but there you go. Fat people do have rights and SO DO GAY PEOPLE. By the way, let's PRETEND for a minute that you are repulsed by fat people. Can't stand them. Nevermind the fact that some who are overweight truly have a medical problem that makes it so avoiding being fat is nearly impossible. You just don't like it and you have that right. NOW, you've done interviews for media before, correct? Yeah? Good...this shouldn't be hard to make believe... Let's now pretend that there is a huge "movement" for overweight people. It's all the rage now, everyone loves overweight people. Whether it's due to a medical condition or just because they choose to be that way. It's in the media, there are bumper stickers supporting it...parades, etc... So you're doing an interview because you're a "public figure" and you're doing an interview for "Spain Real Estate Magazine" (I made that title up myself!)....They see that you're a pretty fit guy. The kind of guy who *might not* be thrilled with someone who isn't quite as *fit* as you. (Much like Phil Robertson who is Christian, from the south and looks like a hick and *might not* support the gay movement)So they dare to ask...just out of innocent curiosity of course what your feeling are on overweight people in general. You don't HATE them but you also don't agree with their "lifestyle" or that it should be promoted as something "good". Do you lie? Do you say you support it to save face because if you don't your career is over? OR do you say how you really feel, and if you really feel it's not somethng that should be glamorized and that everyone should agree with-do you SAY that? Well, if you want to KEEP your job YOU BETTER. I don't care if you agree with it or not, you had BETTER say you DO because if not, there will be repercussions that will surely affect your business, your income and your reputation as a decent human being. Do you GET IT now? Standing up for someone who is being bullied is one thing but when you try BULLYING others in to your views or pretending to go along with them to avoid the backlash is quite another. I don't like to be bullied. As a matter of fact, the more someone tells me I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING...even if I had been thinking of doing it myself...when you try bullying me, the less likely I am to do it. I may nnot do it now even if I want to because of the fact that you're trying to bully me. When you threaten someone's livelihood (sp?) because they don't agree with your views you are bullying them and in fact doing the SAME thing to them that you're accusing them of doing. Gay people have the same rights as everyone else. The only thing they couldn't do before was get married. Now they can...not everyone is going to agree with that and they DON'T HAVE TO. But apparently now it's okay to PUNISH them for not agreeing or pretending to agree. THAT IS BULLSHIT. Do you get it?
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 11:02:03 GMT -5
AND another thing...I have three friends who are not only lesbians but live I guess what you would call a poligamist lifestyle. The THREE of them are together. Have been for years. I've known the one since I was a kid. They live together just as a regular married couple would except there are three of them. They are three of my favorite people to be around so whenever I'm back out in the town I used to live in, I look for them immediately when I go in to the bar that I know they frequent and THAT is who I spend the majority of my time hanging out with while I'm there. I go to parties at their house and they're always invited to mine. I don't care if people who don't know them find it weird...cuz it IS kinda weird. I've asked them how the whole "three of them" thing works because that, to me, is even more weird or different than being gay. Add the two together and it's a very different lifestyle and if you don't KNOW them...it's weird.
I like them for who they are. They don't judge other people. They would stand up for someone they love in less than a minute. If something is wrong and you tell them about it you can literally FEEL that they really care and aren't just asking for conversation. They're all three like this and maybe that's why they get along so well. Matter of fact, Rocky, (nickname for Raquel)the one I've known since I was a kid actualyl came to my house to help with my backyard (it was a nightmare) when I lived out there and this was around the time when I was having so many problems with Lauren. Rocky was a *badass* back in the day. She was not someone to mess with. Actually, she still isn't but she has grown older and matured and doesn't involve herself in fights and crap like that anymore. Anyway, Rocky talked to Lauren way back then and tried to help me with her by telling her that fighting etc...was wrong. She literally has scars on her knuckles from people's teeth as she was quite the scrapper. She told Lauren that no matter how *bad* she thinks she may be...there's always someone *badder* than her and she'd be wise to quit with the badass act while she's ahead. Rocky is deeply religious and has a good heart. My whole point is it has NOTHING to do with being gay or being a polygamist or whatever...she is a good person, as are her two girlfriends and if someone were to try and bully them because of their lifestyle I would defend them just as strongly as I defend someone being bullied for not agreeing with it. (Not that I would need to because Rocky could kick the ass of any man I know)
They don't have to walk around telling people how freaking gay they are or hang all over each other to show they're together and proud to be gay or attend parades or work themselves in to a tither because someone doesn't agree with their lifestyle. *I* don't agree with it. *I* think it's weird, but I like them SO much as people that I don't CARE what they do otherwise. I'll betcha that THEY think the Phil Robertson thing is stupid as well. He was NOT disrespectful. He stated his opinion and why he believes it and added that he would never be disrespectful to someone because of it. That's all they ask. Why do so many others think they deserve the right to bully others in to pretending to agree?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 11:12:06 GMT -5
Okay, so if Philly boy said that fat people are going to hell and they're no better than folks who copulate with their pet poodles, that'll be fine with you? Or is this really what we all know it is? Because you go along with his anti-gay remarks. We're not stupid, okay? It's pretty obvious. So you go on with your ridiculous arguments until hell freezes over, but it' not going to make you look anything more than what it already does.
And I'm going to take my cat to the vet now, which I apologize for ahead of time being that it will surely take away medical services for children.
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joan
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Post by joan on Dec 21, 2013 11:51:30 GMT -5
Dear Zak: I really don't know if sex was the reason. Some people are uncomfortable dealing with feces. I suppose some of the women in the group would have less of an issue with this (given that most women babysit at some point in their lives and have done diaper duty). Still, this wouldn't be an issue if sufficient funding were available for aides and specialized facilities. What was more interesting (and sad) was that according to Alison -- the guys in the group developed a venomous hatred of this man because he asked for help with this issue. Now whether it was actual awkwardness over the fact that they were same sexed adults or not -- I am not sure. Still, that raises an interesting point -- given that these fellows were all "pro gay" it would be interesting to find out if their objection was because he was a same sexed adult asking for help. I don't know. I doubt Alison does and I don't think she'd want to ask them either. --Debutante In another time, in another place, this man in need would probably have been murdered. He's asking quite a lot. Awkwardness has nothing to do with this. It's a gross-out & you can't expect anyone to willingly help & you know what? I think it's wrong for him to ask. "I can have a normal life if someone volunteers to clean my ass after I shit." What a sense of entitlement, pushing one's own health hygiene problems on others. This has absolutely nothing to do with the issues of being gay. As for passion for causes, we all don't have the same passion for the same causes.
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 11:52:38 GMT -5
Okay, so if Philly boy said that fat people are going to hell and they're no better than folks who copulate with their pet poodles, that'll be fine with you? Or is this really what we all know it is? Because you go along with his anti-gay remarks. We're not stupid, okay? It's pretty obvious. So you go on with your ridiculous arguments until hell freezes over, but it' not going to make you look anything more than what it already does. And I'm going to take my cat to the vet now, which I apologize for ahead of time being that it will surely take away medical services for children. He didn't say ANYONE was going to hell. He said it was a sin and that it was between them and God. He quoted the bible so if you believe God wrote it perhaps you should take it up with him. He never said they were no better than people who are attracted to poodles, he simply named what he considered to be another sin just as he said a person who indulges in alcohol was a sinner. I believe earlier in the thread you called them drunks. It's funny because looking at them with their beards and knowing they're from the south, one might assume that. The fact is, they don't drink. I believe you made a judgement based on what they look like and where they're from. That's different though, isn't it? I also never said you or anyone here was stupid. Are you assuming that because you think I am that I think the same of you? Because I don't...I',m trying to make you see my point of view and you don't want to...so don't. What exactly IS it that I *look* like. You think I'm a bigot or racist or whatever now because I don't like reverse bullying? Okay. It doesn't bother me at all because I know what I am and what I'm not. I also know I'm not a person who will allow anyone to BULLY me in to anything and if that makes me something someone doesn't like, I don't know what to tell them. *I* am going to TRY and finish my Christmas shopping and then come home and babysit my grandchildren so my daughter can do the same. I also apologize ahead of time as surely it will take away from time spent bullying people into applauding things they don't agree with. Ah well.
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joan
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Post by joan on Dec 21, 2013 12:09:20 GMT -5
PS--Jesus would wash the feet of others. The Bible doesn't mention him wiping up asses. I would like it if he needed an aide to help him, through Medicare and/or Medicaid, that one be provided.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 12:40:38 GMT -5
Jay 'Corey' Jones, Gay Minnesota Teen, Commits Suicide After Allegedly Being Bullied Friends and family are mourning the loss of a Minnesota teen who jumped to his death last Sunday after allegedly being tormented by classmates for being gay. 17-year-old Jay 'Corey' Jones of Rochester, Minn. had suffered severe depression after being bullied for a number of years. Jones had known he was gay from a young age, according to his father, Jay Strader. Police officials say Jones jumped from a pedestrian bridge near Century High School on May 6. www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/jay-corey-jones-gay-minnesota-teen-suicide_n_1510001.htmlGay teen commits suicide after being bullied Brandon Elizares, an openly gay sophomore at Andress High School, never got used to the taunts and teasing he endured since coming out in 2010. He told his friends and family he didn't want to make a fuss about it. He wanted to forget about what people said about him and move on. In the end, he wasn't able to. www.elpasotimes.com/ci_20847745/el-paso-gay-teen-commits-suicide-after-beingFour US teens bullied for being gay commit suicide in a month At least four incidents of young men killing themselves after being bullied over their sexual orientation have been reported in the US in the last month. www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/10/01/four-us-teens-bullied-for-being-gay-commit-suicide-in-a-month/Tennessee gay teen commits suicide over anti-gay bullying Another gay teen has been lost to anti-gay bullying — Phillip Parker, 14, died on Friday, the victim of an apparent suicide. Phillip’s parents and grandparents found his body Friday afternoon, minutes later they found a handwritten note in his trash can that read “Please help me mom.” His parents said Phillip was constantly bullied because he was gay. Gay Oregon Teen Who Hanged Himself Dies After Being Taken Off Life Support The 15-year-old gay Oregon boy who had been put on life support after hanging himself from school playground equipment has died. An Oregon Health and Science University spokesman confirmed that Jadin Bell died early Feb. 3 at the Portland hospital, according to the Associated Press. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/jadin-bell-dead-gay-oregon-teen-hanging_n_2617909.htmlBoy, 14, kills himself after 'gay' taunts A 14-year-old boy who blogged about being suicidal due to being incessantly bullied at school has been found dead outside his home in an apparent suicide. Jamey Rodemeyer, from Buffalo, New York, cried for help online for months before his death and his family and friends said suicide was a popular topic with him. He regularly posted about being bullied at school and how people would launch gay insults at him. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039801/Bullied-gay-teen-Jamey-Rodemeyer-commits-suicide-Thanks-Lady-Gaga-post.html#ixzz2o8FBeSM7Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook 11-year-old Boy commits suicide after homophobic bullying Two days after the worst day of her life, when she found her 11-year-old son had committed suicide by hanging himself, Sirdeaner L. Walker said on Wednesday she wants the bullying to stop. www.dailykos.com/story/2009/04/10/712853/-A-11-y-o-Boy-commits-suicide-after-homophobic-bullying
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 12:59:14 GMT -5
So here I am standing in a ridiculous Victoria's Secret line responding to a ridiculous argument....I'm well aware of kids being bullied for being gay just as they're bullied for a number of other things. Kids can be real assholes and I'm positive I could post just as many links for child suicides due to bullying that had nothing to do with being gay. I do not support bullying in any form but it seems to me that some here may condone it if they happen to agree with the cause.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 13:14:08 GMT -5
Yes, but we're talking about Phil Robertson's comments where he condemned homosexuality as being in the same category as bestiality, drug addiction etc. So what effect do you suppose comments like his (him being an influential TV star) will have on the hundreds of thousands of young gays who are already being victimized? Would you say - and think about this carefully before you answer - Robertson's comments are likely to:
A/ Promote tolerance?
or
B/ Promote homophobia and give encouragement to the people doing the bullying?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 14:32:44 GMT -5
Okay, so if Philly boy said that fat people are going to hell and they're no better than folks who copulate with their pet poodles, that'll be fine with you? Or is this really what we all know it is? Because you go along with his anti-gay remarks. We're not stupid, okay? It's pretty obvious. So you go on with your ridiculous arguments until hell freezes over, but it' not going to make you look anything more than what it already does. And I'm going to take my cat to the vet now, which I apologize for ahead of time being that it will surely take away medical services for children. He didn't say ANYONE was going to hell. He said it was a sin and that it was between them and God. He quoted the bible so if you believe God wrote it perhaps you should take it up with him. He never said they were no better than people who are attracted to poodles, he simply named what he considered to be another sin just as he said a person who indulges in alcohol was a sinner. I believe earlier in the thread you called them drunks. It's funny because looking at them with their beards and knowing they're from the south, one might assume that. The fact is, they don't drink. I believe you made a judgement based on what they look like and where they're from. That's different though, isn't it? I also never said you or anyone here was stupid. Are you assuming that because you think I am that I think the same of you? Because I don't...I',m trying to make you see my point of view and you don't want to...so don't. What exactly IS it that I *look* like. You think I'm a bigot or racist or whatever now because I don't like reverse bullying? Okay. It doesn't bother me at all because I know what I am and what I'm not. I also know I'm not a person who will allow anyone to BULLY me in to anything and if that makes me something someone doesn't like, I don't know what to tell them. *I* am going to TRY and finish my Christmas shopping and then come home and babysit my grandchildren so my daughter can do the same. I also apologize ahead of time as surely it will take away from time spent bullying people into applauding things they don't agree with. Ah well. He said no one was going to hell? Do you actually know what the man said? I guess that explains some of what you're thinking. What do you think "will never see the Kingdom of God" mean? I don't think it means they'll be sent to a health spa instead. I never called anyone drunks, unless I was quoting someone else. As far as the rest of your post, we've been over this again and again. If what I said hasn't gotten through yet, I'm not wasting my time repeating myself ad nauseum.
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 14:43:58 GMT -5
I know what the quote "will never see the kingdom of heaven" means....I just wasn't aware that you thought Phil Robertson wrote it himself. Again, he was quoting the bible and what he believes. Maybe the bible should be banned.
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 14:46:48 GMT -5
Yes, but we're talking about Phil Robertson's comments where he condemned homosexuality as being in the same category as bestiality, drug addiction etc. So what effect do you suppose comments like his (him being an influential TV star) will have on the hundreds of thousands of young gays who are already being victimized? Would you say - and think about this carefully before you answer - Robertson's comments are likely to: A/ Promote tolerance? or B/ Promote homophobia and give encouragement to the people doing the bullying? If it's someone reading what YOU wrote where you pick and choose what he said, take things out of context and completely leave things he said out(You know, you accidentally forgot the part about him saying no one should be treated disrespectfully because they're different. Oops!)...well, I guess it could encourage bullying.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 15:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 15:46:09 GMT -5
Yeah, no one should be treated disrespectfully, but homosexuals are going to hell, and homosexuality is in the same category as bestiality, drug addiction, prostitution etc.
"And they receive... the due penalty for their perversion. They are full of murder, envy, strife, hatred... they are god haters, they are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil. So what are you gonna do Pennsylvania? Just run with them?"
Nice man. Not a bit bigoted or homophobic.
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 18:21:05 GMT -5
PS--Jesus would wash the feet of others. The Bible doesn't mention him wiping up asses. I would like it if he needed an aide to help him, through Medicare and/or Medicaid, that one be provided. Dear Joan: There isn't going to be an aide for this man. The reason is because our government is too concerned with a lot of causes that when you come down to it, simply don't matter. This business about who sleeps with who is just waste of time, money, and resources. I can't go a single day without seeing an article about the gays. If handicapped people got 1/10 of the publicity and public sympathy that is devoted to other people's wee-wees and hoohas there wouldn't be this problem. There's a lack of public awareness for the problems faced by handicapped people because as a society, we are more worried about someone's playtime sex preferences.. By the way, I deliberately use the term "wee-wees and hoohas" because it sounds STUPID. And the constant attention to this issue of who is sleeping with whom is stupid. And if you think that this isn't about "sex" then I suggest you come to Chicago when they have a "gay pride" parade and watch the people in boys town do their thing. It is exactly as Tricia described it earlier. Now, if you are PASSIONATE about that kind of PUBLIC behavior, because you think it's "love" -- then I can't help you. But then again, maybe handicapped people aren't as "worthy" because they're too busy trying to learn to walk or talk to worry about pee-pees playtime. Again, it's a matter of priorities. As far as Jesus wiping asses -- I like to hope that He'd have performed a miracle in such cases. But we don't know what He did in such cases, but my guess is He'd help with whatever the equivalent of toilet paper was at the time. --Debutante
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Dec 21, 2013 18:33:04 GMT -5
There's just no way to get it into your head that there's no connection at all between equal rights for gays and lack of support for charitable causes, is there?
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 18:48:06 GMT -5
Being gay has NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to do with sex. Whoops!! I see lots of people that missed that memo.... Maybe *this* is what Phil Robertson is referring to. Maybe it's not. Maybe this is what we should condone as acceptable behavior after all, it's all about rights. Right? Sorry. I don't care if you're gay but if you ACT this way, gay or straight, there are going to be lots of people that don't think much of you.
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 18:53:00 GMT -5
Obviously, I did not see him speak prior to the interview that is in question. I don't think anyone did actually or A&E wouldn't have picked them up as a show. This is something TMZ just dug up and while I admit he sounds misinformed here, take a look at the video I posted for you and I can post 100 more. If that's all he knows of gay people, well, what othe ropinion would he have when you combine only knowing the gross side and your religion that says it's wrong.
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 18:53:55 GMT -5
Jay 'Corey' Jones, Gay Minnesota Teen, Commits Suicide After Allegedly Being Bullied Friends and family are mourning the loss of a Minnesota teen who jumped to his death last Sunday after allegedly being tormented by classmates for being gay. 17-year-old Jay 'Corey' Jones of Rochester, Minn. had suffered severe depression after being bullied for a number of years. Jones had known he was gay from a young age, according to his father, Jay Strader. Police officials say Jones jumped from a pedestrian bridge near Century High School on May 6. www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/jay-corey-jones-gay-minnesota-teen-suicide_n_1510001.htmlGay teen commits suicide after being bullied Brandon Elizares, an openly gay sophomore at Andress High School, never got used to the taunts and teasing he endured since coming out in 2010. He told his friends and family he didn't want to make a fuss about it. He wanted to forget about what people said about him and move on. In the end, he wasn't able to. www.elpasotimes.com/ci_20847745/el-paso-gay-teen-commits-suicide-after-beingFour US teens bullied for being gay commit suicide in a month At least four incidents of young men killing themselves after being bullied over their sexual orientation have been reported in the US in the last month. www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/10/01/four-us-teens-bullied-for-being-gay-commit-suicide-in-a-month/Tennessee gay teen commits suicide over anti-gay bullying Another gay teen has been lost to anti-gay bullying — Phillip Parker, 14, died on Friday, the victim of an apparent suicide. Phillip’s parents and grandparents found his body Friday afternoon, minutes later they found a handwritten note in his trash can that read “Please help me mom.” His parents said Phillip was constantly bullied because he was gay. Gay Oregon Teen Who Hanged Himself Dies After Being Taken Off Life Support The 15-year-old gay Oregon boy who had been put on life support after hanging himself from school playground equipment has died. An Oregon Health and Science University spokesman confirmed that Jadin Bell died early Feb. 3 at the Portland hospital, according to the Associated Press. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/jadin-bell-dead-gay-oregon-teen-hanging_n_2617909.htmlBoy, 14, kills himself after 'gay' taunts A 14-year-old boy who blogged about being suicidal due to being incessantly bullied at school has been found dead outside his home in an apparent suicide. Jamey Rodemeyer, from Buffalo, New York, cried for help online for months before his death and his family and friends said suicide was a popular topic with him. He regularly posted about being bullied at school and how people would launch gay insults at him. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039801/Bullied-gay-teen-Jamey-Rodemeyer-commits-suicide-Thanks-Lady-Gaga-post.html#ixzz2o8FBeSM7Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook 11-year-old Boy commits suicide after homophobic bullying Two days after the worst day of her life, when she found her 11-year-old son had committed suicide by hanging himself, Sirdeaner L. Walker said on Wednesday she wants the bullying to stop. www.dailykos.com/story/2009/04/10/712853/-A-11-y-o-Boy-commits-suicide-after-homophobic-bullyingDear Zak: That's very sad, isn't it? I have a question. How did the other students find out that these young people were gay? Is there a certain physical characteristic that identifies a person as gay? Like for example, you can tell a blind person because they can't see and use a white cane and have a guide dog? Or a person who can't walk because they're in a wheelchair? Or could it possibly be that these young people were aping their elders in the gay community and making sure to "let it all hang out", thus drawing attention to the fact that they are gay? Let me tell you about Louie. Unlike most Catholic high schools -- ours was co-ed. For every three girls, there was approximately one boy. So the poor guys were pretty much outnumbered. Now everybody knew Louie was gay. How could we not? He walked around with a binder full of magazine cut-outs of men pasted on paper and each had it's own commentary. This binder was constantly shoved into everyone else's faces (whether or not we cared to view it). He shoved it at me once and I remember glancing down and seeing a bunch of arrows drawn over the genital area of the photos and all kinds of "arrow" comments. I was already in my Junior year -- so I would have been about sixteen. Let me clue you -- I felt BULLIED by being forced to view his private fantasies. I didn't ASK to see them. They were THRUST upon me. Now generally speaking, Louie's orientation didn't bother me most of the time. However, I didn't appreciate him making sexual comments every time one of the teachers showed a film and he thought some hot guy was on screen. I didn't appreciate his comments in English class particularly -- he liked to twist every story we read looking for some "hidden gay references" that weren't there, but he was sure he saw --- so, his gay world viewpoint thrust itself into MY education. However, the one thing that irritated me the most is -- he couldn't go more than five minutes without talking about sex (assuming it was outside of class). Yes, Louie. Sure, Louie. Yeah, we know you're gay. You told us -- probably ten billion times. Nobody bullied Louie. In fact, I think Catholic kids of the late 60's and early 70's might have been too polite. Nobody ever simply told Louie his pubic emphasis on his gayness was intrusive. Perhaps we should have. We didn't hate Louie for being gay. We simply DID NOT CARE. And because we didn't -- he kept coming at us at every opportunity. I don't know if he was just an idiot, or if he thought he was being deliberately provocative. One other thing I should mention to make a clarification -- our nuns were OLD. We're talking average age 80ish. So the few times, they saw Louie's book -- I don't think they had any clue what all of it was about. So that explains why he walked around with this thing pretty much unhindered. We had a couple lay teachers -- Mr. G just told him to "put it away". Mr. S. just blushed and ignored the thing. Miss G said something in French that was beyond our ability (at the time) to translate... Anyhow...that's all the reaction he had from the adults in the vicinity. Now...none of the articles on these young men you've mentioned above -- says anything about how these young people conducted themselves within the school. If they acted like Louie -- and constantly shoved their orientation in other people's faces -- then maybe there's a reason they got bullied. Not everyone is as polite as the kids in my high school. It doesn't make bullying "right" -- if someone doesn't ASK if you're gay -- then maybe, just maybe you don't need to TELL them. Don't tell them? My what a novel idea! --Debutante
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 19:01:25 GMT -5
Being gay has NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to do with sex. Whoops!! I see lots of people that missed that memo.... Maybe *this* is what Phil Robertson is referring to. Maybe it's not. Maybe this is what we should condone as acceptable behavior after all, it's all about rights. Right? Sorry. I don't care if you're gay but if you ACT this way, gay or straight, there are going to be lots of people that don't think much of you. Dear Tricia: Oh -- that's really a mild clip compared to the stuff that you see when the folks in boys town get going! Too bad the news doesn't zero in on the real graphic stuff because they can't put it on prime time TV. --Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:08:17 GMT -5
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 19:08:40 GMT -5
There's just no way to get it into your head that there's no connection at all between equal rights for gays and lack of support for charitable causes, is there? Dear Zak: Nope. I want the money people donate to "gay rights" donated to the handicapped. That's the bottom line as far as I am concerned. Oh, and in a perfect world -- I'd want the legislators not to waste time on endless debate on the subject when they can be debating about methods to help the handicapped. Time and money. That's the issue. --Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:08:42 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:09:52 GMT -5
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Post by tricia on Dec 21, 2013 19:19:14 GMT -5
This is what I found when I looked up what the bible says about homosexuality. That it is a sin but they can still enter the Kingdom if they accept Jesus.
What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Does scripture condone or denounce the behavior? Is the scripture clear? There are varying opinions on what the Bible says about homosexuality and same-sex relationships, and the best way to understand where the conflict comes from is to learn more about the specific scriptures being debated.
Will Homosexuals Inherit the Kingdom of God? One of the most greatly debated scriptures regarding homosexuality is 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).
While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone.
However, even if a person believes that homosexuality is a sin based upon this scripture, the next verse does say that homosexuals can inherit the kingdom if they come to the Lord, Jesus Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:35:49 GMT -5
And still be gay? Or stop practicing being gay? I don't care what the Bible says, and there are Christians who are plain evil. The point is religion should have NOTHING to do with civil rights and liberties. And that's just great that the BIG DUCK said this kind of thing in the Christmas Season where Christ's birth is remembered. Truthfully this has really upset me. I'm sure that you all don't care. But it really has and I've really got to think about do I want to be associated with a forum where people can't just say, well, I can't agree with it because of my Christian beliefs, but that's just me. And I realize that Christianity is only one religion in a world where there are many and many who are not religious and many who do not believe. Let each person decide for themselves. As for myself, I will believe as my conscience tells me and each person has the right to do the same. But, no, fundamentalists have to have everyone beleive exactly like them. That is why--nevermind that is why. And, by gum, I'm really beginning to believe that those kind of churches should lose their tax exemptions. And A&E knew about this family, what they really were. And they will be hearing from me..I promise you that. I have already researched how I can reach them by e-mail. By the way, the Bible was written by man, not God.
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Post by debutante on Dec 21, 2013 20:00:12 GMT -5
I just had to post this video someone just showed me (after hearing me talk about this string).
Now then -- tell me AGAIN how it's not about sex....
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