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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 4:15:01 GMT -5
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 21, 2019 12:39:38 GMT -5
What you haven't done yet is establish that any of this is the result of a deliberate government policy to kill people instead of a mere bureaucratic mixup that can be easily remedied once it is pointed out.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 14:36:39 GMT -5
If the government is as clearly incapable of doing its job as you suggest, then it either needs to be replaced or somebody else needs to take up the job. Don't you think so?
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Post by debutante on Aug 21, 2019 18:03:15 GMT -5
No. I think these people need to stop coming here uninvited.
It costs approximately $25 per vaccination for an uninsured person. If you're such a humanitarian -- write a check and pay for these people yourself. If not, mind your own business.
The European Union is replete with no go Zones. Rape gangs attack little boys and girls. There are knife attacks galore such that they are going to pass laws taking away your cutlery. You will have to gnaw your meat like savages and you have the gall to criticize the United States!
Until your European Union solves its massive problems don't presume to pass judgement on our government. Our problems are minor by comparison!
Do you really think we won't call you on this bullshit?
-- Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:52:01 GMT -5
The European Union is replete with no go Zones. Rape gangs attack little boys and girls. There are knife attacks galore such that they are going to pass laws taking away your cutlery. You will have to gnaw your meat like savages and you have the gall to criticize the United States! I know, that happens all the time, in between the feminist death squads that kill everyone who is straight and male, the socialist death panels that kill all the sick people, and the roaming squads of leftist college students who shoot people if they disagree with them. It can get very annoying at times, true, but honestly after spending the first twenty years of your life in socialist government brainwashing camps where they forbid you from talking about God, you get used to it.
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Post by debutante on Aug 22, 2019 18:26:47 GMT -5
Fine. Then solve your own migrant problems first. The EU is a great example of what NOT to do when dealing with migrants.
--Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 6:06:47 GMT -5
The EU is a great example of what NOT to do when dealing with migrants. I actually agree with you there. The EU should have worked to spread the arriving immigrants fairly over European countries, weighted for economic wealth and social infrastructure of course.
The problem is that the EU is not a government and cannot actually make the actual national governments of its member states do anything they don't want to.
So what we have here is the right-wing and neofascist governments of Europe flat out refusing to vote for any sort of compromise, while at the same time trying to brutalize (or in the case of Italy, outright murder) new migrants
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Post by debutante on Aug 23, 2019 7:56:33 GMT -5
None are so blind as those who will not see.
You apparently haven't noticed the yellow vest riots.
Your beloved migrants are raping and knifing their way across Europe. They've passed laws preventing people from speaking the truth even online (it will get you a visit from the modern Gestapo who will haul your ass to jail in the name of "hate speech") although it's apparently not considered "hateful" for migrants to rape your wives and children (both boys and girls) for their so called "sexual emergencies".
The total asinine behavior and moronic thought processes of your politicians is astounding. Rather than admit they screwed up, they double down and give you more of the same. And they try to cover up the crimes of the migrants by making it a crime to talk about them.
Thank God Almighty for Donald J. Trump who has frustrated the European Union's attempts to sink their grubby claws into our Republic. Bathhouse Barry may have set the stage for the takeover, but "The Donald" stopped them dead in their tracks! No wonder a lot of people refer to him as the GEOTUS!
So thanks, but no thanks, we've seen what happened to Europe and we're not having it here. Build that wall!
We are, and always will remain, a Republic!
TRUMP 2020
--Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 23, 2019 8:14:40 GMT -5
>If any children might die, then it's clearly their own fault for deliberately placing themselves into these border camps ---I assume that it's the parents who brought the kids, not the kids who made that choice. In many cases they're running from drug gangs who would draft their sons and make their daughters prostitutes. So just about anything risk better than that.
---But just out of curiosity - why is abortion bad if allowing children to die of preventable diseases is good? 8->
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Post by debutante on Aug 23, 2019 9:35:28 GMT -5
Hi Fred:
Who is going to pay for it?
Not to put too fine a point on it -- but there will always be poor people somewhere in the world. There is a huge difference between voluntary charity (wherein one shares from a perceived surplus) and forced taxed contributions (wherein funds collected for the benefits of our own poor citizens are diverted to those who have crossed our borders illegally).
There will be poor always, and you can't spend every moment of every day worrying about situations beyond your control. There isn't enough money for the United States to support all the people in South America who want to illegally jump our borders. We do what we can for those in our country.
This is reality.
There will always be poor people somewhere in the world. The one point I always agreed with ...
--Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 24, 2019 8:24:21 GMT -5
>Who is going to pay for it? ---Well, there are something like 370,000 tax-free Christian churches in the US. Jesus specifically said to honor and take care of the poor and the strangers from other lands. Seems like, dare I say it, a marriage made in heaven? ;->
---I think we've talked about the wall before. (1) at least half (maybe more) of our illegals came in through airports, with visas, and just didn't go home. That's at least 5-6 million that a wall could not have stopped. (2) Look at what people have where we have fencing. They fly over it, they dig under it, they go around it. Drug cartels have the money to but TNT and blow hundreds of holes in any wall, or they can bribe border guards. The phase in Spanish is "plato o plumo". You either take the bribe or we'll kill your and your family.
There are many other problems, but they all show the same thing. A wall won't keep people out.
Now what might actually work is to jail the people who hire illegals. Not fine the companies (that just reduces money going to stockholders), but some actual jail time for the CEOs and such. That big raid in Mississippi the other day? Not a single executive of that chicken processing plant has been charged with anything. Hundreds of illegals working there (and they knew it), and no penalty for the bosses. If we start putting people in jail for hiring illegals, that will stop most of them from coming. This is the ONLY solution that has any chance of working.
Those seeking asylum are a different story. They're already dead if they stay home, so they have nothing to lose. But the good news is that it's not illegal to come to the US and ask for asylum. Whether we give it to them or not is another story, but they are not part of the illegal problem - that's a different problem.
Anyway, a wall would cost billions to build and billions to repair and maintain and billions to put guards along it and it still wouldn't fix the problem. (Speaking of money, if you're concerned about taxes and our record deficit, who's going to pay for this? Not Mexico.)
Of course, another irony is that the same people who say we should spend money on our own citizens instead of foreigners yell "Socialism!" when we try to take care of our own. Hey, I'm all for churches actually being Christian and taking care of the poor, like Jesus said to do. It's just that only a few of them actually try. Most are in the "Joel Osteen needs another mansion" mode and care less about the poor. Sigh.
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Post by debutante on Aug 24, 2019 9:00:16 GMT -5
Hi Fred:
Dream on -- I have seen many churches collect money, but I have seldom (as in never) seen any of it given out to the "poor". Don't count on it.
By the way, there are wealthy people in South America. Quite a few, in fact. Not to put too fine a point on it, but these are their immediate neighbors, not ours. Why do you imagine it is the responsibility of the United States to care for the poor of South America?
We are obligated to care for our immediate neighbors. We are not obligated to go searching the world for "poor" to rescue. The fact that the world has grown smaller through television does not mean the fellow in Guatemala is your "neighbor" by any stretch of the imagination. You might choose to donate to a cause further afield, but you are not obligated to do so.
Therein lies the manipulative scheming of the Democratic party. They attempt to convince Christians that Jesus commanded them to take care of every poor person in the world. If that were the case, why didn't he totally eliminate poverty during his tenure on earth?
He confined his ministry to his vicinity. Why is it assumed we must do more than Jesus?
Our "vicinity" is confined to our borders and we have a responsibility to our poor first. Our poor people should not have to go without because the poor of South America jumps the border. It is not our responsibility. It is the responsibility of the governments of South America to care for their own people.
As for the wall -- how wrong you are! I am still on limited access-- now they tell me the new modem is on back order and won't be here until next Thursday.
But...if I weren't, I'd find a somewhat hilarious video of people trying to scale Trump's new wall with astounding failure. It was online about two days ago. Not enough Internet time to look for it until the new modem arrives. Plus, I still need to explain about the red shoes.
--Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 25, 2019 9:03:07 GMT -5
>Why do you imagine it is the responsibility of the United States to care for the poor of South America? ---I don't. But if we're going to lock people up, for whatever reason, we need to give them the basics of food, shelter and medical care. I read somewhere that we spend about $770 per day per person locked up in the camps. Not sure if that's true, but, if so, it seems like a flu shot wouldn't be a budget breaker.
---As to caring for our own poor instead of those in the world, we don't. Yeah, maybe Christians are only responsible for the plight of their neighbors, but they don't do that very well either. Those clusters of poor and homeless in all the cities of the US are reservoirs of crime and disease, and those things spread out into the rest of the city. We need to fix this problem for out own self interest.
>I'd find a somewhat hilarious video of people trying to scale Trump's new wall with astounding failure. ---Note that of all the reasons a wall wouldn't work that I mentioned, scaling wasn't on the list. I'll concede that no one can crawl over such a wall. But they can, and do, dig under and fly over existing fences and walls. And they can and do bribe and threaten border guards. And it would be very entertaining for drug cartels to blow hundreds of holes in walls, since they have billions in cash to buy TNT and such.
---And again, only about 1/2 of illegals come across the border from Mexico. A wall would have absolutely no effect on those who come in with visas and just go home.
---Imagine that you had an insect problem in your home. Bug specialists come in and say they will take care of it, but it will cost about as much as the home is worth. And they can only get rid of less than half of the bugs. And maybe even fewer than that. Would you jump at the offer? Or would you call someone else and look for a different solution?
---The ONLY way to keep illegals out is to start putting the people who hire them in jail. Period. A wall simply wastes tax money. Since the people who hire illegals bribe...er, donate...Congress with lots of money, we will never get the problem fixed. In other words, there are many businesses that like having cheap, illegal labor and they will fight to the last to keep them coming in. They will bribe both Dems and Reps to prevent any real solution. Since a wall won't work, they don't care if one is built. In fact, the construction companies hired to build a wall would almost certainly use illegal workers to build it. Build a wall? 10-15 years of tax money going to construction companies. 8-<
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 10:05:48 GMT -5
Actually, the Bible is pretty clear that Christians ought to love their enemies as well as their friends.
But I can see how that would be trouble, seeing as modern day Christians like Deb already have great difficulty showing sympathy for their less fortunate neighbours, let alone people they see as a danger and a threat.
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Post by debutante on Aug 25, 2019 11:40:47 GMT -5
Nope.
I understand accounting. And the United States doesn't have a magic money tree that replenishes itself as needed.
We have a certain balance to spend that is finite per year. We have a set number of poor entitled Americans to whom it is owed by virtue of their citizenship.
It is essentially a no brainer. United States citizens come first. If there was surplus -- I'd have no objection to sharing afield -- but there is not enough to fund our poor to MY STANDARDS which, are fairly high. They would get more with me in charge -- but they would be being educated and transitioning into gainful employment as well.
I am not heartless. I can balance books. You obviously don't have a clue about credits and debits.
--Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 14:45:32 GMT -5
How much are you personally spending to keep United States citizens out of poverty?
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Post by debutante on Aug 25, 2019 15:12:22 GMT -5
Let's put it this way -- over our lifetime, between taxes and personal contributions a whole lot more than you!
Lol!
--Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 26, 2019 7:45:10 GMT -5
>We have a certain balance to spend that is finite per year. ---That's old accounting thought. The gov hasn't kept within budget in many, many years. We're now on track to be over 1 trillion dollars in national debt in the next few months. The tax breaks to the rich didn't increase tax income, like was promised, and we have continually increased spending at the same time that we have been taking in much less tax money.
---I miss the old Republican Party. Or even the Tea Party, for that matter. People who thought that a balanced budget was not only a good thing, but a vital necessity. The Reps always mocked the Dems as the party of "tax and spend", but the new Reps are the party of "don't tax, but spend anyway". Sigh.
---Deb, like you said, we don't have a magic money tree. But Trump and the Reps certainly act like we do. And sooner or later, that is going to become a very, very serious problem. 8-<
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 26, 2019 9:47:43 GMT -5
>We have a certain balance to spend that is finite per year. ---That's old accounting thought. The gov hasn't kept within budget in many, many years. We're now on track to be over 1 trillion dollars in national debt in the next few months. The tax breaks to the rich didn't increase tax income, like was promised, and we have continually increased spending at the same time that we have been taking in much less tax money. ---I miss the old Republican Party. Or even the Tea Party, for that matter. People who thought that a balanced budget was not only a good thing, but a vital necessity. The Reps always mocked the Dems as the party of "tax and spend", but the new Reps are the party of "don't tax, but spend anyway". Sigh. ---Deb, like you said, we don't have a magic money tree. But Trump and the Reps certainly act like we do. And sooner or later, that is going to become a very, very serious problem. 8-<
Unfortunately Fred, you are 100% right about this.
Government spending is like an addictive drug. Politicians use it to buy votes so they are not going to stop until there is a collapse. Everyone knows you can't live off of your credit cards forever. Eventually you have to pay the bill.
This time we are going to get an economic crisis like we have never seen before.
As usual, the blame will be be placed on Human Greed and the crisis will be used as an excuse for ...more government action.
So the "cure" will be for the government, the very organization that caused the crisis to begin with, to take more action.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 17:30:53 GMT -5
A balanced budget is neither intrinsically a good thing, nor is it a vital necessity when we're talking about national economies running on fiat money.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 26, 2019 17:56:29 GMT -5
A balanced budget is neither intrinsically a good thing, nor is it a vital necessity when we're talking about national economies running on fiat money.
That's an interesting claim.
Would you happen to have any Facts to support it?
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 18:31:38 GMT -5
I don't need evidence to reject an unsupported claim.
The onus lies on the person making the positive claim to support it with evidence first.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 26, 2019 19:44:43 GMT -5
I don't need evidence to reject an unsupported claim. The onus lies on the person making the positive claim to support it with evidence first.
Uh, McAnswer, YOU were the one who said "A balanced budget is neither intrinsically a good thing, nor is it a vital necessity when we're talking about national economies running on fiat money."
So it's you who are making the unsupported claim.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 11:58:05 GMT -5
I was responding to Fred. You know, the other guy who sometimes shows up and posts things on this forum.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 27, 2019 16:58:51 GMT -5
I was responding to Fred. You know, the other guy who sometimes shows up and posts things on this forum.
Last time I looked, this was an open forum and any member can respond to any post.
And it's still true that you were making unsupported claims.
Bob
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