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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 5:25:23 GMT -5
Which of these procedures did you go through after you were born? What is complex about that question? You've argued that in order to enter America, everyone needs to be processed in concentration camps. I did not answer your question because I don't see the point of it. What does your example have to do with the situation we are discussing? So every American needs to go to the government and get permission in order to be allowed to live in the country? When did you get this permission, and what did you do before that time? Did you live in a concentration camp? Do you see any evidence to support your arguent? I don't. If it exists, then please point it out to me so I can revise my statement. 'Coming to the US' is not the same thing as 'being put into a concentration camp', nor does the former imply the latter. Plenty of people enter the US every year who aren't being put into concentration camps.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 12:13:25 GMT -5
But that's what you are doing here. You just made a claim without providing any supporting evidence at all. What is your evidence that I didn't provide any evidence? You know that's not how it works, Bob. There is no way for me to provide evidence for something that does not exist.
It's not the atheist who has to prove that there is no invisible man in the sky, it's the theist who has to prove that such a man exists.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 9, 2019 13:01:19 GMT -5
But that's what you are doing here. You just made a claim without providing any supporting evidence at all. What is your evidence that I didn't provide any evidence? You know that's not how it works, Bob. There is no way for me to provide evidence for something that does not exist.
Yes. That's right. The evidence for your claims doesn't exist. Thanks for clearing that up.
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 9, 2019 13:21:50 GMT -5
Which of these procedures did you go through after you were born? I went through the "I was born here" procedure. Automatic citizenship. No. I never said that. You made it up. In other words, you don't have a good answer. In both cases, people are entering property that isn't theirs without getting permission. It isn't their property. They have no right to enter it without permission. Don't tell me that you forgot that people born here are automatically citizens? It's in the Constitution.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 15:01:56 GMT -5
You know that's not how it works, Bob. There is no way for me to provide evidence for something that does not exist.
Yes. That's right. The evidence for your claims doesn't exist. Thanks for clearing that up.
Bob
Do you have evidence for your claims, yes or no? If yes, why don't you show it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 15:05:28 GMT -5
Which of these procedures did you go through after you were born? I went through the "I was born here" procedure. Automatic citizenship. So what you are saying is that contrary to your earlier claim, you did not need to pay admission to enter your country, and you did not need to fill out any papers. You were simply given citizenship without having to do anything. And with that, you were born to a status where you do not need to seek permission from your government to live where you want, like you expect all foreigners to do. Do you believe that people not born in America like you were ought to be treated differently? If so, why?
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 9, 2019 16:11:09 GMT -5
I went through the "I was born here" procedure. Automatic citizenship. So what you are saying is that contrary to your earlier claim, you did not need to pay admission to enter your country, and you did not need to fill out any papers. You were simply given citizenship without having to do anything. As usual, you don't give quotes of what I actually said. That's because there are no such quotes. Once again, you made it all up. But you can enter your house any time you want to without permission while other people can't. Isn't that just as unfair? Do you believe that people whose name is not on your lease ought to be treated differently from from you? If so, why? Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 9, 2019 16:12:04 GMT -5
Yes. That's right. The evidence for your claims doesn't exist. Thanks for clearing that up.
Bob
Do you have evidence for your claims, yes or no? If yes, why don't you show it?
You first.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 6:44:11 GMT -5
Do you have evidence for your claims, yes or no? If yes, why don't you show it? You first. Bob
If you can't support your claims with evidence, then I don't need to accept them as fact.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 6:51:14 GMT -5
So what you are saying is that contrary to your earlier claim, you did not need to pay admission to enter your country, and you did not need to fill out any papers. You were simply given citizenship without having to do anything. As usual, you don't give quotes of what I actually said. That's because there are no such quotes. Once again, you made it all up. Did you need to pay anything, do any paperwork, or fulfill any other requirements other than being born, yes or no? Are you saying is that some people have an inherent birthright to enter stranger's houses at will? If not, then what real situation is your analogy supposed to describe? How is immigration just like trying to break into somebody's home? Can you describe the thought process that had you start at "breaking into people's home is bad" and ended up with "the government must put immigrants into camps"?
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Post by debutante on Aug 11, 2019 9:38:07 GMT -5
You act like they have no choice. They do not have to stay in the border facilities. They are welcome to return to whichever country they came from. The door is open. They can leave whenever they want. Nobody will stop them from going back.
--Debutante
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 11, 2019 11:57:41 GMT -5
You first. Bob
If you can't support your claims with evidence, then I don't need to accept them as fact.
The same is true your statements.
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 11, 2019 12:08:35 GMT -5
As usual, you don't give quotes of what I actually said. That's because there are no such quotes. Once again, you made it all up. Did you need to pay anything, do any paperwork, or fulfill any other requirements other than being born, yes or no? Of course not. But you already knew that, didn't you? No. People don't have the right to enter someone else's house at will. Nor do they have the right to enter another country at will. I never said that. You are making things up again. What I did say is that ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is like trying to break into someone's house without their permission. Since I never made any such statement, your question is merely a Complex Question Fallacy. You should really get into the habit of cutting and pasting what I actually say instead of making up things and claiming I said them. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 14:57:17 GMT -5
Did you need to pay anything, do any paperwork, or fulfill any other requirements other than being born, yes or no? Of course not. But you already knew that, didn't you? Why do all these people need paperwork to be allowed to live in America, when you did not? Does that mean that some people are born with certain rights and others aren't? Or is it simply a case of the government treating people differently based on their genetic heritage? Then what was the point of your analogy? You still haven't explained why. So you are not supporting these camps after all? Thanks for clearing that up!
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 11, 2019 18:00:43 GMT -5
Of course not. But you already knew that, didn't you? Why do all these people need paperwork to be allowed to live in America, when you did not? Why do strangers need paperwork (a signed lease) to enter your house without your permission? Yes. What's your problem? Complex Question Fallacy.People with all sorts of genes are born here. The law makes no mention of "genetic heritage." That is the point of the analogy. Just as no one has the right to move into your house without permission, so no one has the right to enter a different country without permission. So you don't knw why strangers cannot break into your house. Your roommates aren't safe. I never said that either. Apparently you have no good replies for what I actually say, so you make things up that you wish I said. Do you have any comments on what I actually said? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:41:25 GMT -5
Why do all these people need paperwork to be allowed to live in America, when you did not? Why do strangers need paperwork (a signed lease) to enter your house without your permission? Yes. What's your problem? In other words, whether you are free to go wherever you want, or are kept in one place by the government until the state decides whether you are worthy to live, is determined by your genetics. So... what exactly was your objection to Nazi concentration camps?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:53:49 GMT -5
Why do all these people need paperwork to be allowed to live in America, when you did not? Why do strangers need paperwork (a signed lease) to enter your house without your permission? First of all, that's a non sequitur: it does not follow from anything I said. Second, I don't own any real estate. Third, nobody needs a lease to enter the apartment where I live. Is that common in the US? I take it that you don't get a lot of visitors, then? I am asking to confirm your position so you can't later claim that I am misquoting you when I describe it in detail. (Not that you won't do it anyway, but it's handy to have an explicit reference that you will then need to deny by claiming that I've misrepresented what you actually said. I like making you put in the extra effort.) No? How come that people who are US citizens are being detained by ICE then? Why would they do such a thing, when being born in the US waives the need to show you have permission to live there? Or did you make up the part where you didn't need to get permission to live in your country after birth?But we know that the latter is not true. You don't need permission to enter a country if you have the correct pedigree or were born in the correct location. So in your analogy, all your landlord's relatives get a master key for your apartment.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 12, 2019 12:22:00 GMT -5
Why do strangers need paperwork (a signed lease) to enter your house without your permission? Yes. What's your problem? In other words, whether you are free to go wherever you want, or are kept in one place by the government until the state decides whether you are worthy to live, is determined by your genetics. Nope, I never said that or even implied it. Maybe that's how it is in Europe. In America we have something called the Constitution and it forbids the government from doing any such thing. And BTW, the Constitution says nothing about genetics either. Nazi Death Camps and Forced Labor Camps violate Human Rights as enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 12, 2019 12:41:55 GMT -5
Why do strangers need paperwork (a signed lease) to enter your house without your permission? First of all, that's a non sequitur: it does not follow from anything I said. Yes it does. People need permission to enter places that are not theirs, whether it's a home or a nation. I never said you had to "own" real estate. You have a lease from the person who does own that real estate giving you permission to stay there. Of course not. But they do need permission from the leaseholder, namely you or your roommates. I have clients and friends here all the time. I give them permission. You wouldn't have that problem if you would simply cut and paste what I actually said instead of making up statements and then claiming I said them. LOL! It should be very clear by now that I like putting in the extra effort!
But it's good to see that you are finally realizing the importance of having people provide actual evidence for their claims. I never heard of any U.S. citizens being detained by ICE. Please list your sources. Please read what I say before you respond. What I DID say is that no one has the right to enter A DIFFERENT COUNTRY without permission. If someone takes a trip abroad, they have a perfect right to come back. The landlord's relatives don't own the building, do they? In any event, the landlord gives you the right to live in the property and not even the landlord can enter without your permission (unless there is an emergency such as a water pipe bursting). Bob
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