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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 19:38:49 GMT -5
It's not a case of "more" or "less" power. Factories, barracks, prisons, clinics and schools are fundamentally run the same way regardless of whether their owner is a crony.
It really doesn't make a difference if you view it within Foucault's theory of power.
As I've said several times, that is the fundamental gulf between the libertarian theory of power and Foucault's: For libertarians, the all-important question concerning power is who wields it. For Foucault, that question is completely irrelevant.
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Post by rmarks1 on Oct 6, 2017 21:03:08 GMT -5
It's not a case of "more" or "less" power. Factories, barracks, prisons, clinics and schools are fundamentally run the same way regardless of whether their owner is a crony. It really doesn't make a difference if you view it within Foucault's theory of power. As I've said several times, that is the fundamental gulf between the libertarian theory of power and Foucault's: For libertarians, the all-important question concerning power is who wields it. For Foucault, that question is completely irrelevant. What Libertarian ever said that "the all-important question concerning power is who wields it?" "The libertarian or “classical liberal” perspective is that peace, prosperity, and social harmony are fostered by “as much liberty as possible” and “as little government as necessary.”theihs.org/who-we-are/what-is-libertarian/ From the same link, here are some definitions of Libertarianism. None mention the wielding of power. "Different Takes on the Libertarian Political Perspective: According to American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition, 2000: NOUN: 1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state. The Challenge of Democracy (6th edition), by Kenneth Janda, Jeffrey Berry, and Jerry Goldman: Liberals favor government action to promote equality, whereas conservatives favor government action to promote order. Libertarians favor freedom and oppose government action to promote either equality or order. According to The Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman, Open Court Publishing Company, 1973: The central idea of libertarianism is that people should be permitted to run their own lives as they wish. According to Libertarianism: A Primer by David Boaz, Free Press, 1997: Libertarianism is the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others. Libertarians defend each person’s right to life, liberty, and property-rights that people have naturally, before governments are created. In the libertarian view, all human relationships should be voluntary; the only actions that should be forbidden by law are those that involve the initiation of force against those who have not themselves used force-actions like murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and fraud." Bob
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 7:46:07 GMT -5
Liberals favor government action to promote equality, whereas conservatives favor government action to promote order. Libertarians favor freedom and oppose government action to promote either equality or order. According to The Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman, Open Court Publishing Company, 1973: Yes. For libertarians, a private organization cannot oppress you, cannot control you, cannot tell you what to do - only the government can. For libertarians, privately-owned organizations cannot have any power, and therefore the only power that exists is one that is wielded by the government. That's what I meant with it being a "question of ownership". The first question a libertarian asks about power is: "Is it owned by the government?" This question is irrelevant for Foucault. For Foucault, it's irrelevant whether power is ultimately legitimized by a government or by a privately-owned entity. A factory, a school, a clinic constitute sets of power relationships regardless of whether they are owned by a private corporation, or a public institution.
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Post by rmarks1 on Oct 7, 2017 10:11:48 GMT -5
Liberals favor government action to promote equality, whereas conservatives favor government action to promote order. Libertarians favor freedom and oppose government action to promote either equality or order. According to The Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman, Open Court Publishing Company, 1973: Yes. For libertarians, a private organization cannot oppress you, cannot control you, cannot tell you what to do - only the government can. For libertarians, privately-owned organizations cannot have any power, and therefore the only power that exists is one that is wielded by the government. That's what I meant with it being a "question of ownership". The first question a libertarian asks about power is: "Is it owned by the government?" This question is irrelevant for Foucault. For Foucault, it's irrelevant whether power is ultimately legitimized by a government or by a privately-owned entity. A factory, a school, a clinic constitute sets of power relationships regardless of whether they are owned by a private corporation, or a public institution. So Foucault found no difference between government power, which you cannot escape, and private "power" where you can simply quit whenever you want to? And once again, where is the "power" in the case of self-employed professionals and their customers? Where is the power in the case of a mutually agreed-to transaction? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 18:52:56 GMT -5
A major point in Foucault's theory of power is that the pillars of our modern society - private corporations, institutions of learning, the judiciary, the medical system, the industrial-economic complex, public and private institutions, they are all linked into an all-encompassing network of power relations which the invidual cannot escape from.
In this theory, modern power cannot be escaped. It can only be resisted.
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Post by rmarks1 on Oct 7, 2017 19:14:27 GMT -5
A major point in Foucault's theory of power is that the pillars of our modern society - private corporations, institutions of learning, the judiciary, the medical system, the industrial-economic complex, public and private institutions, they are all linked into an all-encompassing network of power relations which the invidual cannot escape from. I think I did a pretty good job. I'm doing work that I really like. I make my own hours. And I haven't called anyone "boss" since March 1981. Yes, I can see that. But there are two questions. What form would the resistance take? If modern power cannot be escaped, can it at least be minimized? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 19:21:50 GMT -5
How about descending to the real world. Who exactly is interested in all this? Do you even live on the planet earth? Some real living human stuff might be a nice change.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 20:20:33 GMT -5
How about descending to the real world. Who exactly is interested in all this? Do you even live on the planet earth? Some real living human stuff might be a nice change. Foucault was part of a prison reform group in France, he was active in the LGBT movement before it was called that way, and he was a vocal supporter of both Solidarnosc and the Iranian Revolution. So it's not like he was an ivory tower intellectual. The living human stuff comes in when your entire life is catalogued and categorized, when the only way you can talk about yourself is through these pre-defined, pre-determined labels that slot way-too-neatly into survey data or government records, customer service records and psychological profiles. It comes in when we are told to look for our "true" selves, but that truth is itself just a lie created for our consumption, so we can shop for the stuff that speaks to our "true selves" like an Amazon customer profile - when really, the way we talk about ourselves should be a creative act, like painting a picture or writing a story. So, just high falluting artsy fartsy nonsense that nobody gives a crap about.
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Post by rmarks1 on Oct 7, 2017 23:20:52 GMT -5
How about descending to the real world. Who exactly is interested in all this? Do you even live on the planet earth? Some real living human stuff might be a nice change. Foucault was part of a prison reform group in France, he was active in the LGBT movement before it was called that way, and he was a vocal supporter of both Solidarnosc and the Iranian Revolution. So it's not like he was an ivory tower intellectual. Well, I think he made a mistake with the Iranian Revolution. But nobody's perfect. Now this I agree with! Bob
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