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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 16:15:05 GMT -5
I'm not quite understanding. Are you distinguishing mass vaccinations for infectious disease from other type of vaccinations? Have you ever been vaccinated for anything? Such as, after your accident did you get a tetanus shot?
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 16:28:15 GMT -5
I began to investigate the whole business of vaccination when my daughter first went to school and they wanted to vaccinate her. After researching the subject, I refused to give my permission for her to be vaccinated. (Incidentally, this right of refusal is being taken away in many countries, and vaccination is being made compulsory.) It is impossible to know whether vaccination works for non-epidemic diseases, since there are no figures available for these. For example - to use the example you gave - it is impossible to know how many people died from lockjaw after they'd received tetanus shots, since no records are kept for this. Personally, I would not be vaccinated against anything. I have refused tetanus shots several times. I have also visited various tropical countries where vaccination is advised, without being vaccinated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 16:31:56 GMT -5
Okay, fair enough. For myself, I'd rather risk getting a vaccination than not.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 16:36:50 GMT -5
Well, that's your prerogative. It just means you give more credence to authority than you do to evidence.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 16:36:56 GMT -5
Wait. One more question. I know you beleive that vaccnations are ineffective. But do you think they're detrimental?
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 16:38:47 GMT -5
I certainly do believe they're detrimental. Of course they are. How could they not be? They're loaded with all kinds of crap.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 16:43:25 GMT -5
I certainly do believe they're detrimental. Of course they are. How could they not be? They're loaded with all kinds of crap. Okay. But that's what makes it a vaccine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 16:44:46 GMT -5
Well, that's your prerogative. It just means you give more credence to authority than you do to evidence. But aren't you yourself presenting yourself as an authority on vaccinations?
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 17:06:37 GMT -5
I've been researching the subject for over 20 years, and I've discussed the subject with some of the most eminent researchers in the field. So while I wouldn't regard myself as an "authority" (I don't believe there are any), I would consider myself to be knowledgeable on the subject. I've yet to meet or talk to an "authority" who can answer the "simple" question: "Where do viruses/bacteria come from?"
But my views on the effectiveness or non-effectiveness are based on the stats. The figures clearly show that vaccination does not, and has never, resulted in a reduction in the mortality rate for any infectious disease. Mortality rates are the bottom line, as far as I am concerned. Either a treatment prevents an infected person from dying, or it doesn't. And the figures show that vaccination has zero effect on the death rate in epidemic diseases. Zero. So pardon me if I base my opinions on observable and testable facts, but to me if something has zero effect, that means it doesn't work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 17:39:36 GMT -5
Sure, I'll pardon you. And there are a lot of folks who won't take vaccinations and lots who do. It's a matter of making decisions based on that own judgment, and what they'll willing to risk, just like you. For sure, you wouldn't tell me or anyone else that I/they shouldn't take a vaccination. You would tell them to educate themselves and consider views like yours and others. That's really the bottom line. And, yes, schools in most of U.S. states (if not all) require certain vaccinations to have any child be admitted to school. There's a Coalition for Vaccine Free Hawaii, and Parent Coalitions against vaccinations here and other states. So, of course, you're not alone in your stance. So, really it's a matter of what one decides is best for them and their families.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 17:52:04 GMT -5
I agree. Especially with the part about doing your own research.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 20:28:46 GMT -5
I have a very good memory. Almost photographic. And since I've been challenging people (including doctors, virologists, epidemiologists etc) to provide evidence supporting vaccination for well over 20 years, I think I'd remember if one of them was able to do so. But if you believe you posted evidence supporting the efficacy of vaccination, please post it again. There's been several cases in the US where epidemics spread almost exclusively among the non-vaccinated members of a community, some as recent as 1-2 years ago. That you do not remember these cases is perfectly understandable given your tendency towards dismissing or ignoring any evidence that runs contrary to your beliefs. We've had this discussion several times on the old boards, I know better than to waste my time trying to convince you of something you don't want to be convinced of.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Mar 19, 2014 20:45:05 GMT -5
Which cases were these?
And I do not dismiss evidence that "runs contrary to my beliefs". My "beliefs" about vaccination are based entirely on the evidence. You keep telling me I dismiss evidence, but I notice you still haven't posted any.
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