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Post by debutante on Mar 7, 2013 21:31:10 GMT -5
To My Atheist Friends:
Guys -- I am really confused. I am currently reading a book about Pope John Paul I. It's a murder conspiracy book.
The author mentions (several times) -- that atheists follow Christ.
I am not sure if this fellow isn't making himself clear or if there is some sub-branch of atheism I know nothing about.
I always believed that by definition an atheist doesn't believe in God at all. Is there a group that does?
So far, I'm 30% into the book on Kindle and this fellow is going on and on about a lot of other stuff I've never heard of and would have to research in other places before I'd strictly believe him.
Anyhow, I'm sure you guys would know -- is there such a thing as an atheist who follows Christ?
Thanks.
--Debutante
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Post by raybar on Mar 7, 2013 22:08:04 GMT -5
Without any context, "follows Christ" is too vague to really mean anything.
I suppose - guessing here - that someone who tries to lead a good life, "do unto others ... " and "turn the other cheek" sort of thing without the religious part could be said to follow Christ. But not to follow him as a god.
Anyway, I've never heard this before.
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Post by debutante on Mar 8, 2013 6:00:37 GMT -5
Dear Raybar:
Thanks!
Maybe that's what he means -- he's also used the term "atheist christians" more than once.
It's a very unusual book.
--Debutante
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joan
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Posts: 1,407
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Post by joan on Mar 8, 2013 8:49:49 GMT -5
How about the author & title, deb?
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Post by faskew on Mar 8, 2013 9:47:21 GMT -5
Basically, "atheists" do not believe in ANY supernatural beings. Period. Like Raybar says, some may adopt ethics or behaviors from various religions, stripped of their supernatural bits. But I would never call that "following Christ.". For one thing, the term "Christ" is a religious title. Technically, it should be "the Christ", just like "the Pope." If you don't believe in gods, then there is no "Christ". An atheist would be more likely to say that they liked certain teachings of the man, Jesus. Just as they might like certain ideas of Gandhi or John Lennon or any other person.
So is this book you're reading fiction? Or pretending to be real? 8->
Fred Askew
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Post by debutante on Mar 8, 2013 15:20:33 GMT -5
Dear Fred: Supposedly, the book is a non-fictional account of the murder of Pope John Paul I. It's strange in the sense that the author paints this Pope as an atheist (  ) who believes in some theology of his own making. When I made the first post I was around 30% through the book (according to Kindle's system) -- now I'm at a little over 50%. Since progressing further -- it seems (according to this book) John Paul I didn't believe in God, nor a historical Christ -- but did believe in Christ's message (which, he attributed to "good" men who made it up). This is contrasted with the Old Testament message (which, he attributed to "bad" men who made it up). Generally speaking, this is a very strange book. I'm finding it hard to swallow that someone who doesn't believe in God would enter the priesthood in the first place. Even if, as the author suggests, it was to "change the church from the inside" -- how could anyone assume they'd reach a position of power to do anything in the first place? One can hope to become pope (as I'm sure every priest might secretly wish) -- but there's no guarantee. It seems too much of a long shot for someone to plan their entire future around. Then too, (like most conspiracy minded people) something is always the fault of the USA somewhere along the line. This author thinks the USA allied with fascist elements in the Vatican to murder this Pope or at least that's what it seems he's getting to at this point in the book. Thing is -- the author has a weird writing style, so at times he goes off on tangents making his reasoning a bit hard to follow. Anyhow, it's weird because although in theory I do agree with a lot of things that Pope John Paul I supposedly said -- this type of philosophy doesn't work in practice. In a nutshell -- I don't think if you remove "God" as an element of Catholicism and substitute "good works by good men" -- it would be enough to hold the system together. I can't imagine Catholics going to mass to tithe an organization with that philosophy. It would basically be no different than government taxing to do public service (which doesn't seem to work no matter how much money they collect). I've just started reading the chapter where he's getting to what he believes was the actual cause of death (having already implied that it's a murder). --Debutante |
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Post by debutante on Mar 8, 2013 15:24:15 GMT -5
Dear Joan:
The title of the book is, "Murder in the Vatican". I can't offhand give you the author. My Kindle is a bit "iffy" about switching between screens. If I go to the page of titles to check the author's name -- I will lose my place in the book. I always have difficulty finding my place in a Kindle once I lose it. That's one bad feature of a Kindle.
I'll post again and give you the author's name when I get to the end of this thing.
--Debutante
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marc
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Post by marc on Mar 11, 2013 6:57:00 GMT -5
There are priest who are atheists. They didn't start out as atheists, they lost their beliefs over time. And now they are kinda stuck. What job can you get when your previous work experience was preacher?
Found out about this from an atheist show where they talked about "The Clergy Project". It is a group that helps priests who have become atheists, weather in just support or in helping them to find a way out to a new career.
It is possible that some of the top people in the Vatican are atheists, and stay there because of the money, influence, or other reason.
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Post by faskew on Mar 11, 2013 7:45:57 GMT -5
Like Marc says, many priests become atheists as they gain wisdom. 8->
Your description of the book makes him sound more like a Gnostic than an atheist.
At any rate, there are many conspiracy theories about his death because there was something that the Church hid about it. No idea what - might be as simple as that he soiled himself during his heart attack. But whatever it was, Church officials hid something about his death and that set off the conspiracy folk. I can't imagine why the US gov would want to kill him and I can't imagine why, if they did, they couldn't have done a better job of it (no suspicion).
Is the book a translation? Many European authors like to wander off subject with lots of extraneous details. It's a popular style, particularly in Latin-based cultures. It shows what a smart guy the author is.
As to you Kindle problems, you should be able to "bookmark" anywhere you like in a book, so you can go directly to that spot. Instructions will vary from model to model, but I think that they all have that feature. If nothing else, note the Loc (Location) number of where you are before you leave and simply use "Go to" when you want to go back.
Fred Askew
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) who believes in some theology of his own making. When I made the first post I was around 30% through the book (according to Kindle's system) -- now I'm at a little over 50%.