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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 9:19:56 GMT -5
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 23, 2019 19:32:18 GMT -5
Yes. That's terrible. It makes you wonder why anyone would undertake a difficult journey of over 1,000 miles just to voluntarily enter such a facility.
By contrast, the victims of Nazi Concentration Camps were arrested and sent to the camps involuntarily.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 11:51:50 GMT -5
Yes. That's terrible. It makes you wonder why anyone would undertake a difficult journey of over 1,000 miles just to voluntarily enter such a facility. By contrast, the victims of Nazi Concentration Camps were arrested and sent to the camps involuntarily. Bob
Are you implying that it's their own fault and the government is blameless? It sounds like you are.
Where did you get the information that the children moved into concentration camps voluntarily in the first place?
All I've read suggests that they were transported to these facilities by agents of the US government.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 24, 2019 13:26:56 GMT -5
Yes. That's terrible. It makes you wonder why anyone would undertake a difficult journey of over 1,000 miles just to voluntarily enter such a facility. By contrast, the victims of Nazi Concentration Camps were arrested and sent to the camps involuntarily. Are you implying that it's their own fault and the government is blameless? It sounds like you are. I'm not saying the government is blameless. But the situation is largely the fault of the migrants who came here voluntarily knowing what the situation was. The children were voluntarily sent here by their parents. From where? Are you saying these agents went to Central America and transported these children? Or were these children first brought to the border by either their parents? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 16:12:36 GMT -5
Are you implying that it's their own fault and the government is blameless? It sounds like you are. I'm not saying the government is blameless. But the situation is largely the fault of the migrants who came here voluntarily knowing what the situation was. So it's the migrant's fault that they're being put into concentration camps? So when you claimed that you "condemned" these concentration camps, what you actually meant was that you condemn the people who have been put there, for being in a concentration camp.Says who? The government?I'm saying that these agents removed the children from the border and took them to a concentration camp. Are you disagreeing?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 16:17:34 GMT -5
Bob, do you believe that the Jews were to blame for the Holocaust?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 24, 2019 17:19:50 GMT -5
I'm not saying the government is blameless. But the situation is largely the fault of the migrants who came here voluntarily knowing what the situation was. So it's the migrant's fault that they're being put into concentration camps? Did the migrant's know what they were getting into? Did they decide to come here anyway? Are you claiming what is happening to the migrants (who come here voluntarily) is even remotely like what happened to the Jews and Roma who were arrested and forcibly put in death camps? No. I meant I was condemning the USA government for not supplying descent waiting facilities for people who were simply waiting for their cases to be heard. Well the U.S. government didn't send these children. So how do you claim they got here? What were these children doing at the border to begin with? Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 24, 2019 17:22:32 GMT -5
Bob, do you believe that the Jews were to blame for the Holocaust?
Of course not.
Do you believe the Jews voluntarily went into the death camps in search of a better life? Do you think there Jews were simply patiently waiting in those camps for their paperwork to be completed?
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 5:08:22 GMT -5
So it's the migrant's fault that they're being put into concentration camps? Did the migrant's know what they were getting into? Did they decide to come here anyway? Are you saying that you don't know? Was your earlier assertion made without supporting evidence that they did in fact know and voluntarily chose to be transported into concentration camps? Yes. But that's not what you are doing here. What you are doing here is blame immigrants for being put into concentration camps, presumably because you believe they walked into these on their own volition, despite you having absolutely no evidence that they did. What are you talking about? These children were taken from their parents. Are you saying that concentration camps are a correct punishment for the crime of immigration? It sounds like you are.
Why is that important?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 5:10:22 GMT -5
Bob, do you believe that the Jews were to blame for the Holocaust? Of course not. Why not? They had the option to leave Germany at any time, clearly they must have voluntarily chosen to be transported into concentration camps. No. Do you believe that these children go into US concentration camps in search of a better life? Do you think they are simply patiently waiting in those camps for their paperwork to be completed?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 10:12:30 GMT -5
Did the migrant's know what they were getting into? Did they decide to come here anyway? Are you saying that you don't know? Was your earlier assertion made without supporting evidence that they did in fact know and voluntarily chose to be transported into concentration camps? This is the age of information. How could they not know about the bad conditions at the temporary detention centers? Yet they choose to come anyway and even pay for their own transportation. By contrast, the Jews and Roma were arrested and sent to death camps against their will, weren't they? And your evidence for this is...? If they didn't come here on their own volition, they must have been FORCED, right? Who forced the immigrants to come to America? Who forced them to pay for the trip? Who forced them to cross the border? No child was taken from their parents until they crossed the border. Who exactly sent those children on a trip of a thousand miles to begin with? What punishment? Those people are just waiting for their cases to be processed. The U.S. government is only at fault for not providing decent temporary housing. For that you have to blame Congress for not authorizing enough money. It's important to know why these children were at the border to begin with. They may have been sent by human traffickers. The children who came with their parents were brought there voluntarily by their parents. Are you claiming U.S. agents went down to Central America and forced people to make a big trip to the border only to cross the border and get detained? Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 11:47:51 GMT -5
Are you saying that you don't know? Was your earlier assertion made without supporting evidence that they did in fact know and voluntarily chose to be transported into concentration camps? This is the age of information. How could they not know about the bad conditions at the temporary detention centers? Yet they choose to come anyway and even pay for their own transportation. Yes, Bob, "this is the age of information". And you have presented none to support your claims here. You are simply talking out of your ass. Why do you ask me? If you want to turn this into an argument in defense of American concentration camps, then go and do your own fucking research to support it. Bob, do you know the difference between freedom and concentration camps? And therefore it was okay to take these children? Is that what you are argueing? If so, then at least have the honesty to come out and state that as your actual argument. So it's okay to put people waiting for a document into concentration camps. What do you think, should the police round up every teenager and put them into concentration camps while they are waiting for their Driver's License to be processed? Who else should be sent to the camp for their own protection and convenience? Expecting mothers who are waiting for their children to be born? People who are waiting at the bus stop? It's just a place people go to pass a little time and shoot the breeze, right? Again, why is that important? Are you saying that if people voluntarily show up at the US border, they deserve to be put into concentration camps?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 11:50:25 GMT -5
You still haven't answered these questions: No. Do you believe that these children go into US concentration camps in search of a better life? Do you think they are simply patiently waiting in those camps for their paperwork to be completed?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 12:57:56 GMT -5
This is the age of information. How could they not know about the bad conditions at the temporary detention centers? Yet they choose to come anyway and even pay for their own transportation. Yes, Bob, "this is the age of information". And you have presented none to support your claims here. You are simply talking out of your ass. Red Herring. You have not presented any evidence at all that the migrants were forced to come here. Where is your evidence that they were forced to come here? You haven't presented any for the simple reason that such "evidence" doesn't exist. In other words, you have no evidence for your claims. No "research" is necessary to prove that Jews and Roma were sent to Nazi concentration camps against their will, is it? And no research is necessary to that the migrants came here of their own free will. Unless of course you can find some evidence to the contrary, which of course you have not done. Do you know the difference? Concentration Camps contain people who were arrested and forced to be in the camp against their will. Temporary Detention Centers are for people who are waiting for their cases to be heard. Children were taken from their parents because children should not be in overcrowded adult facilities. The facilities are overcrowded because Congress didn't authorize enough money. A bad situation caused by government incompetence. You're trivializing the Holocaust by claiming it was no worse than the present government screw-up. "A concentration camp is a large detention center created for political opponents, specific ethnic or religious groups, civilians of a critical war-zone, or other groups of people, usually during a war. Inmates are selected according to some specific criteria, rather than individuals who are incarcerated after due process of law fairly applied by a judiciary. The most notorious concentration camps were the Nazi death camps, which were utilized to implement the Holocaust." www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Concentration_campNotice this definition does not include people waiting for their cases to be heard. Why? The teenagers are already citizens. Red Herring. These people are already resident citizens so that does not apply here. Complex Question Fallacy. People who show up at the U.S. border asking for political asylum have to have a hearing to see if their claims are correct. When there is a major backlog, they have to wait. That's not a "Concentration Camp." As the above definition shows, "concentration camps" are mostly for people who have been arrested unjustly and against their will. The migrants already know about the camps and the long wait. Yet they come anyway of their own free will and accord. Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 13:02:45 GMT -5
You still haven't answered these questions: No. Do you believe that these children go into US concentration camps in search of a better life? The children were brought there voluntarily by their parents in search of a better life, or involuntarily by human traffickers. Why else would they be there? Bob
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Post by debutante on Jun 25, 2019 13:06:28 GMT -5
Bob, Ask him if he's as worried about these children. Democrats seem to have no problems with the welfare of these children. Why is that? Ask him why he isn't outraged about what's happening to THESE CHILDREN. --Debutante
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 15:39:22 GMT -5
Why else would they be there? Bob I know right?
Why else would a child be detained at a concentration camp, than to wait for their paperwork?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 15:41:47 GMT -5
Bob, Ask him if he's as worried about these children. Democrats seem to have no problems with the welfare of these children. Why is that? Ask him why he isn't outraged about what's happening to THESE CHILDREN. --Debutante Ask me yourself, you coward.
And LOL why would I be a Democrat? There is no Democratic Party here.
I literally want to destroy the government.
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Post by debutante on Jun 25, 2019 16:08:05 GMT -5
These days most people consider that an alternative definition of Democrat.
I SET YOU UP FOR THAT ONE!
ROFLMAO
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 16:42:38 GMT -5
Why else would they be there? Bob I know right?
Why else would a child be detained at a concentration camp, than to wait for their paperwork? Complex Question Fallacy.
You haven't demonstrated that these are "concentration camps."
And you haven't demonstrated that people are being held for any other reason than to wait for their case to come up for review.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 18:20:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 18:49:05 GMT -5
Clearly all these children are moving to new concentration camps entirely on their own, and definitely are not being transported there by force by the American government.
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 22:58:26 GMT -5
Your definitions do not describe what is happening on the border.
These people are not being imprisoned because they are enemies or terrorism suspects. They are simply being held because there is a tremendous backlog and not enough personnel to process their papers. Blame Congress for not voting sufficient funds.
These people could also have avoided "internment" simply by not crossing the border.
As far as "evidence" about the Jews in Nazi Concentration camps, well they didn't go there voluntarily, did they? They were arrested, put in cattle cars, sent to the camps, and millions of them were deliberately murdered, weren't they?
Did the U.S. government arrest any of these migrants in their homes and drag them over the border? Is that your claim?
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 25, 2019 23:03:21 GMT -5
Clearly all these children are moving to new concentration camps entirely on their own, and definitely are not being transported there by force by the American government.
All your article shows is that an "unusually large influx of border crossers" has overwhelmed the system and the agents in charge are coping as best they can.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 6:41:17 GMT -5
Therefore putting children into concentration camps is alright?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 6:43:35 GMT -5
Did the U.S. government arrest any of these migrants in their homes and drag them over the border? Is that your claim?
Bob
The US government does in fact arrest migrants, and forcibly puts them in concentration camps. But according to you, that's okay, because immigrants deserve to be treated that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 6:44:22 GMT -5
Bob, you proudly proclaimed that you are descended of Jewish migrants in the last thread on this subject.
Do you think your family should have been held in concentration camps? If not, why not?
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 26, 2019 13:49:40 GMT -5
Therefore putting children into concentration camps is alright? Well according to Postmodernist principles, it is alright as long as the majority of the society says it's alright. If they do, then Postmodernists would have to say that it is alright for this society.
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 26, 2019 13:52:26 GMT -5
Did the U.S. government arrest any of these migrants in their homes and drag them over the border? Is that your claim?
Bob
The US government does in fact arrest migrants, and forcibly puts them in concentration camps. But according to you, that's okay, because immigrants deserve to be treated that way.
You didn't answer the question. Does the U.S. government go to migrant's homes, forceably arrest them, take them to the USA, and then put them in prison?
As for people who cross the border illegally, they are breaking the law and are subject to arrest.
If citizens don't like that law, they can always petition Congress to change it.
Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on Jun 26, 2019 13:58:45 GMT -5
Bob, you proudly proclaimed that you are descended of Jewish migrants in the last thread on this subject. Do you think your family should have been held in concentration camps? If not, why not?
Is there a difference between being arrested because of one's ethnic background and then sent to a camp to await execution
AND
voluntarily entering a country knowing well in advance that you will be put in a detention center until your case is heard? Bob
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