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Post by faskew on May 10, 2019 7:41:40 GMT -5
It drives me crazy that the American public is so ignorant. Example: Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods. Trump says that China will pay the money directly into the US Treasury. Of course, that's not true. US importers will pay the tariff on goods that they bring in from China and then they will pass that cost on to US consumers. In other words, the US public will be paying the tariffs, not China. China will not give us a single penny. Yet Trump can say something so obviously not true and no one seems to care.
Whether the tariffs are a good idea or not is irrelevant. The problem is that the American public doesn’t know what’s actually happening. There’s also the question of whether Trump himself actually knows how tariffs really work. 8-<
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Post by rmarks1 on May 10, 2019 20:45:10 GMT -5
It drives me crazy that the American public is so ignorant. Example: Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods. Trump says that China will pay the money directly into the US Treasury. Of course, that's not true. US importers will pay the tariff on goods that they bring in from China and then they will pass that cost on to US consumers. In other words, the US public will be paying the tariffs, not China. China will not give us a single penny. Yet Trump can say something so obviously not true and no one seems to care. Whether the tariffs are a good idea or not is irrelevant. The problem is that the American public doesn’t know what’s actually happening. There’s also the question of whether Trump himself actually knows how tariffs really work. 8-<
What you say is true Fred. But it doesn't give the entire picture.
Not everyone will be paying those tariffs. Since those Chinese goods are now more expensive, fewer people will buy them.
American manufacturers who have goods made in China will start looking for other countries to make their goods. Actually, several of them are looking even now because Chinese labor costs are rising.
China won't be giving us any money directly, but they will be loosing money because they will be selling fewer goods here.
Bob
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Post by faskew on May 11, 2019 9:56:28 GMT -5
Yes, it's just that Trump said that China would be paying the tariffs, not us, and that's just not true. We definitely had several problems with China, and this may indeed be the best way to deal with them. But I fault Trump for not admitting that both nations will be suffering. Trump says that we can just make some of the stuff ourselves, but it takes a long time to build a factory and get it up and running, months to years. Plus the startup costs. What business folk are willing to invest big bucks into a US factory when the trade war may end in a couple of months? Trump is so unpredictable. Like you say, safer to just find a new source.
And, yes, people will be buying less stuff from China, but for the people on the bottom of the economic world, that may mean going without things they really need.
I, too, have read that China's labor costs have been going up and so work was already being outsourced to even cheaper nations. But it takes a while to build a new factory and time to train the workers. Those businesses that have already shifted out of China will have a head start, but others will require some time.
Anyway, like I said, I suspect that China's dictatorship will be better able to withstand any economic pain caused by the tariffs. Republican business owners who are losing sales are going to be thumping on Trump and Congressional Reps to make it stop. Who knows how it will work out.
BTW, you know how Trump makes up disparaging nicknames for anyone he doesn't like? Crooked Hillary, Lying Ted, etc. I thought of one for him - Dishonest Donald. 8->
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Post by rmarks1 on May 11, 2019 19:34:23 GMT -5
Yes, it's just that Trump said that China would be paying the tariffs, not us, and that's just not true. We definitely had several problems with China, and this may indeed be the best way to deal with them. But I fault Trump for not admitting that both nations will be suffering. Trump says that we can just make some of the stuff ourselves, but it takes a long time to build a factory and get it up and running, months to years. Plus the startup costs. What business folk are willing to invest big bucks into a US factory when the trade war may end in a couple of months? Trump is so unpredictable. Like you say, safer to just find a new source. And, yes, people will be buying less stuff from China, but for the people on the bottom of the economic world, that may mean going without things they really need. I, too, have read that China's labor costs have been going up and so work was already being outsourced to even cheaper nations. But it takes a while to build a new factory and time to train the workers. Those businesses that have already shifted out of China will have a head start, but others will require some time. Anyway, like I said, I suspect that China's dictatorship will be better able to withstand any economic pain caused by the tariffs. Republican business owners who are losing sales are going to be thumping on Trump and Congressional Reps to make it stop. Who knows how it will work out. BTW, you know how Trump makes up disparaging nicknames for anyone he doesn't like? Crooked Hillary, Lying Ted, etc. I thought of one for him - Dishonest Donald. 8->
Fred, China doesn't have 100% of any market. There are already factories in other countries that make stuff. All they have to do is hire another shift. Any shortages will be temporary.
Bob
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Post by faskew on May 12, 2019 7:50:38 GMT -5
Agree that China doesn't have 100% of any market, but I think replacing Chinese goods would be more complicated than just hiring another shift. Supply chains need to be built and tweaked. For example, electronics requires rare earth minerals that are imported from outside China, then used in Chinese factories. China has treaties with Afghanistan, Africa, etc. to get rare minerals in large quantities. Someone trying to compete with China would have to find new sources (or buy from China). So even if they had the factory capacity (and they may not), other nations would need some time to set up raw materials supplies, maybe build larger ports or whatever, set up contracts with US companies, and so on. Not impossible, but lots and lots of things to juggle, all of which require time. The amount of time between switching from Chinese goods to others would vary from industry to industry, and that gap is where we will be feeling the pain. Of course, there's also the stuff that China won't buy from us, and there may not be new markets that can replace China. For example, I saw on TV this weekend that the Maine lobster industry is already hurting from the old tariffs since they sell so much to China. New Chinese tariffs will likely put several lobster folk out of business because there simply is no other nation with a couple of billion people who want lobsters. It's a very, very complex set of circumstances and it involves multiple governments, businesses, etc. One size does not fit all. 8-<
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 10:27:45 GMT -5
Fred, China doesn't have 100% of any market. There are already factories in other countries that make stuff. All they have to do is hire another shift. Any shortages will be temporary. Bob
There is no factory outside of China and Taiwan that manufactures iPhones. There is no "extra shift" to hire. I guess Apple could make a deal with Samsung to manufacture their phones in Korea, though. |
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Post by rmarks1 on May 12, 2019 14:55:36 GMT -5
Fred, China doesn't have 100% of any market. There are already factories in other countries that make stuff. All they have to do is hire another shift. Any shortages will be temporary. Bob
There is no factory outside of China and Taiwan that manufactures iPhones. There is no "extra shift" to hire. I guess Apple could make a deal with Samsung to manufacture their phones in Korea, though.
Uh, McAnswer. The Chinese government doesn't rule Taiwan yet. 
Bob
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