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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 1:58:15 GMT -5
Once again, you cry "fallacy" without either explanation or supporting evidence. You literally said that "we have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." Please explain to me Bob why you think a literal word-for-word quote from you would be "a Strawman claim"? If all the Jews were under persecution, I would request evidence that all Jews were under persecution, not just an article mentioning that one Jewish man was being harassed. Are you saying that all Jews are under persecution in the US? Because I bet I could dig up one article where a Jewish person was being harassed.
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Post by rmarks1 on Apr 27, 2019 15:30:02 GMT -5
Once again, you cry "fallacy" without either explanation or supporting evidence. You literally said that "we have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." Please explain to me Bob why you think a literal word-for-word quote from you would be "a Strawman claim"? LOL! Don't you see what you did here? YOU CHANGED MY ORIGINAL TEXT! What I DID SAY: "We have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." What I DIDN'T SAY: "The majority of adult Americans is under persecution by leftists." Your Strawman misquote implies that the majority of Americans are actively being persecuted right now. I clearly did not say that. Next time you quote me, please just cut and paste what I actually said instead of relying on your apparently faulty memory. As usual, you leave out parts of the previous post that would refute your point. What you left out here was my comment that "It is not necessary for a majority of adult Americans to be under persecution to conclude that there is an increasing problem with persecution." In other words, you don't have to have persecution of all members of a group at all times in order to conclude that there is persecution or that persecution is increasing. If 1% of a minority group is persecuted on year and the persecution rate goes up to 2% the next year and 3% the year after that, then there is increasing persecution. Red Herring and Strawman. As always, I am amazed by your ability to make more than one error in logic in the same sentence. If you re-read my original post, I was clearly using persecution of Jews as an hypothetical example. I was not making any comment about actual persecution of Jews. I was responding to your previous post where you wrote: "You posted "many articles" reporting that the majority of adult Americans is under persecution by leftists? I must have missed those." Bob
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 3:36:11 GMT -5
Once again, you cry "fallacy" without either explanation or supporting evidence. You literally said that "we have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." Please explain to me Bob why you think a literal word-for-word quote from you would be "a Strawman claim"? LOL! Don't you see what you did here? YOU CHANGED MY ORIGINAL TEXT! What I DID SAY: "We have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." What I DIDN'T SAY: "The majority of adult Americans is under persecution by leftists." Would you say that the majority of Americans disagree with leftists? If yes, then my statement was an accurate reflection of your argument.
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Post by rmarks1 on Apr 28, 2019 12:02:12 GMT -5
LOL! Don't you see what you did here? YOU CHANGED MY ORIGINAL TEXT! What I DID SAY: "We have leftist groups persecuting everyone who doesn't agree with them." What I DIDN'T SAY: "The majority of adult Americans is under persecution by leftists." Would you say that the majority of Americans disagree with leftists? If yes, then my statement was an accurate reflection of your argument.
Wrong. Those extreme leftists only go after people who are in open disagreement with them. In other words, they go after people who speak up. There is no need to go after those who are silent.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 2:11:30 GMT -5
Would you say that the majority of Americans disagree with leftists? If yes, then my statement was an accurate reflection of your argument. Wrong. Those extreme leftists only go after people who are in open disagreement with them. In other words, they go after people who speak up. There is no need to go after those who are silent. Bob
Are you seriously argueing that the handful of college professors mention in your articles are the only Americans openly disagreeing with communism?
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Post by rmarks1 on Apr 30, 2019 14:15:57 GMT -5
Wrong. Those extreme leftists only go after people who are in open disagreement with them. In other words, they go after people who speak up. There is no need to go after those who are silent. Bob
Are you seriously argueing that the handful of college professors mention in your articles are the only Americans openly disagreeing with communism?
Huh? What connection is there between what I said and your question?
Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 1:23:27 GMT -5
Those articles were your "evidence" that leftists go after everyone who disagrees with them. And since now you made the argument that the majority population is simply silent, it seems plausible that the evidence mentioned is of those who spoke out.
Do you have evidence of more than a handful of college professors disagreeing and being persecuted?
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Post by rmarks1 on May 1, 2019 13:38:16 GMT -5
Those articles were your "evidence" that leftists go after everyone who disagrees with them. And since now you made the argument that the majority population is simply silent, it seems plausible that the evidence mentioned is of those who spoke out. Do you have evidence of more than a handful of college professors disagreeing and being persecuted?
Are you claiming that it is okay if just a few people are being persecuted? Sounds as if you are.
Persecutions usually start small, but they have a tendency to grow.
The Nazis started small too. Had you been alive in the 1920's, would you have said "Oh that's nothing! A few people are always being persecuted."?
Would you be against arresting a murderer because "After all, they only killed one person. That's nothing."?
Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 21:40:13 GMT -5
A simple "no" would have been enough.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 1, 2019 23:10:40 GMT -5
A simple "no" would have been enough. A simple "no" would have validated your implied claim that a few instances of persecution are tolerable. They are not. That is the route the Wiemar Republic took .
Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 1:53:42 GMT -5
The Weimar Republic made leftists harass a few college professors? Where is your evidence for that?
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Post by rmarks1 on May 2, 2019 14:08:46 GMT -5
The Weimar Republic made leftists harass a few college professors? Where is your evidence for that? "It was not difficult for the Nazis to win the support of many university professors, administrators, and students. At the time, a majority of them backed conservative political parties that were hostile to the Weimar Republic. Many university professors immediately welcomed the Nazi-led government in 1933. Many student fraternities and other student groups already banned Jews and regularly protested against professors they believed did not support supposed traditional German values. www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-and-human-behavior/chapter-5/controlling-universitiesBob
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Post by faskew on May 3, 2019 15:13:39 GMT -5
What people forget these days is that the Nazis didn't steal the government in Germany - it was given to them by a majority of the populace. Losing the war and then being hit with the Depression made the nation ripe for change, and for people who claimed to know what had gone wrong and how to fix it. And, to some extent, the early successes of the Nazis seemed to indicate to big business and others with power that the Nazis were the best option to MGGA - Make Germany Great Again (I couldn't resist - sorry).
Of course, one of the most dangerous false beliefs of the time was that Germany didn't actually "lose" the war, but the nation was betrayed by politicians. Unlike WW2, the WW1 German army was still in the field and fighting when the war ended and the soldiers didn't understand how politicians could have given up so much when, to the soldier's minds, they weren't all that bad off. Not defeated, but betrayed by Jews, Communists, and others. And so those people had to be removed from power for the sake of the nation (self-defense).
So it was necessary to silence any professors and such who resisted the new path.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 3, 2019 21:35:01 GMT -5
What people forget these days is that the Nazis didn't steal the government in Germany - it was given to them by a majority of the populace. Losing the war and then being hit with the Depression made the nation ripe for change, and for people who claimed to know what had gone wrong and how to fix it. And, to some extent, the early successes of the Nazis seemed to indicate to big business and others with power that the Nazis were the best option to MGGA - Make Germany Great Again (I couldn't resist - sorry). Of course, one of the most dangerous false beliefs of the time was that Germany didn't actually "lose" the war, but the nation was betrayed by politicians. Unlike WW2, the WW1 German army was still in the field and fighting when the war ended and the soldiers didn't understand how politicians could have given up so much when, to the soldier's minds, they weren't all that bad off. Not defeated, but betrayed by Jews, Communists, and others. And so those people had to be removed from power for the sake of the nation (self-defense). So it was necessary to silence any professors and such who resisted the new path.
Exactly the point Fred. Your last line says it all: "So it was necessary to silence any professors and such who resisted the new path."
That's exactly what's happening on some college campuses today.
Bob
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