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Post by faskew on Aug 12, 2018 9:31:43 GMT -5
Article from Wired News, my favorite source of tech and nerd news. Wired is a pay-to-view site, but my understanding is that you can see 4 free article per month. Hope that's true. Essentially this article says that people don't base their beliefs on facts, so fact-checking won't change anyone's mind about anything. Depressing, but probably true. TWITTER FACT-CHECKING WON'T FREE US FROM OUR BASELESS CONVICTIONS www.wired.com/…/twitter-jack-dorsey-fact-checking-…/
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Post by raybar on Aug 12, 2018 11:15:37 GMT -5
Fred, the link you gave took me to a "page not found" page. 3 tries.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 12, 2018 12:23:41 GMT -5
Article from Wired News, my favorite source of tech and nerd news. Wired is a pay-to-view site, but my understanding is that you can see 4 free article per month. Hope that's true. Essentially this article says that people don't base their beliefs on facts, so fact-checking won't change anyone's mind about anything. Depressing, but probably true. TWITTER FACT-CHECKING WON'T FREE US FROM OUR BASELESS CONVICTIONS www.wired.com/…/twitter-jack-dorsey-fact-checking-…/
Shouldn't that read "Fact-Checking won't won't make some people free from baseless convictions?" And I couldn't get the link either.
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 13:37:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 14:17:38 GMT -5
The thing is if Democrats win a lot of seats in Congress in this mid term election coming, we know what the excuse is gong to be: illegal voting going on. Finally will need to declare martial law. Maybe suspend elections for the next 10 years or so? I would not put it past far-right believers to think that and want that.
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Post by rmarks1 on Aug 12, 2018 15:34:07 GMT -5
Article from Wired News, my favorite source of tech and nerd news. Wired is a pay-to-view site, but my understanding is that you can see 4 free article per month. Hope that's true. Essentially this article says that people don't base their beliefs on facts, so fact-checking won't change anyone's mind about anything. Depressing, but probably true. TWITTER FACT-CHECKING WON'T FREE US FROM OUR BASELESS CONVICTIONS www.wired.com/…/twitter-jack-dorsey-fact-checking-…/
I found it. Thanks Lily.
While it is true that many, if not most, people have baseless convictions that are not easily changed by facts, I find i weird that the author uses Richard Rorty as one of his sources. Rorty is a postmodernist who does not believe in "fact of the matter." Here is a quote:
"Apart from human expression in language, notions of truth or falsity are simply irrelevant, or maybe inexistant or nonsensical. Rorty consequently argues that all discussion of language in relation to reality should be abandoned, and that one should instead discuss vocabularies in relation to other vocabularies. In coherence with this view, he thus states that he will not exactly be making "arguments" in this book, because arguments, as expression mostly within the domain of a given vocabulary, preclude novelty."
For Rorty, facts don't change what people think because there are no facts!
Bob
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Post by debutante on Aug 13, 2018 19:38:22 GMT -5
Perhaps it's because no one "fact checks" the "fact checkers".
I found out something interesting about Snopes a few weeks ago. Apparently, it's run by a husband and wife team that happen to be Democrats. That in itself isn't a problem assuming they are not biased. But the article I read also said they accept funding from......Soros.
I thought that was a little "fact check" that should be better known about this particular group of fact checkers.
Odd, isn't it? Two years ago I didn't even know who George Soros was --and now I know a great deal about him.
I'd like to know more about other "fact checking" sites because of this. Who is in charge? Who does the funding?
--Debutante
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Post by debutante on Aug 13, 2018 20:31:11 GMT -5
Rechecked into the story -- very interesting developments. Snopes fact checked itself about the claims against them and decided they were false. (Nothing like the party in question supporting it's own innocence!) A few other fact checking sites declared it false...but who is fact checking these people? If the claim that Soros was funding Snopes is true --- who's to say he isn't funding these others as well? Perhaps debunking this would serve to discourage people into looking at who funds them. (An attempt to control the narrative? But that would mean conspiracy .... well, conspiracy seems to be something the oversight committee is uprooting these days.) Most of the recent articles disclaim any bias --- but I think Strsok did too. We live in exciting times! --Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 14, 2018 9:02:34 GMT -5
>Snopes fact checked itself about the claims against them and decided they were false. ---The thing I like about Snopes and PolitiFact is that they show you the path they took to reach a conclusion. You can follow the process and, if you have doubts, check it yourself. The real question about Snopes is whether they show bias in their answers. Doesn’t matter where their funding comes from if they are neutral in their answers. Granted, I haven’t read every answer to every subject on the site, but I’ve never seen bias in any subject that I’ve ever looked up. Usually go there when I get emails from friends making wild claims.
---I had a super-conservative friend years ago who’s view of life was very simple. If you were not conservative, you were automatically liberal, biased, a fool, etc. So his view of Snopes was that they were liberal-biased because they exposed some conservative things he believed in as being not true. Since they didn’t agree with him, they were biased. Didn’t matter to him that they showed why the conservative claim wasn’t true or that they also exposed some liberal claims as being not true. Either you are 100% with him, or you are a biased liberal. Deb, I pretty sure that even you wouldn’t pass the test for this friend and so he would consider you a liberal. Same as Snopes. 8->
> Most of the recent articles disclaim any bias --- but I think Strsok did too. ---What Strsok said was that his personal beliefs did not influence any work that he did for the FBI. Which may or may not be true, but, as far as I know, no one has ever shown any act that he did was biased.
----Here’s the problem. Every person who works for the FBI and all other government agencies has personal beliefs. Some left, some right, some middle. If we demand that only people who totally agree with the current president can hold government jobs, we’re going to have some serious turnover every 4-8 years. Not a realistic deal. What we can demand is that government workers don’t let their personal beliefs interfere with their jobs. It’s actions that count, not beliefs. Believe whatever you want, but keep your beliefs out of the job. BTW, this was also a problem under Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc., when many FBI and others didn’t like them. It’s going to happen with every president. There are even Secret Service folk who hate the president that they are sworn to protect with their lives. I don’t see a solution for this problem. Like I said, so long as their beliefs do not change their actions, let it ride.
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Post by debutante on Aug 14, 2018 20:25:55 GMT -5
Hi Fred:
Oh -- I think they'll end up nailing Strzok for the "We'll stop him" email. His explanation sounded too far out to be believable. And since he was constantly smirking -- he didn't win friends and influence people. Well, they finally fired him -- but the fallout of this thing is really annoying.
What gets me is that they've wasted so much money on this special counsel. There isn't a law regarding "collusion" in the first place. And the Russians Mueller decided were guilty aren't going to come back to the States just so he can arrest them. And the dude with questionable money problems -- that subject really didn't have anything to do with the inquiry in the first place.
But all that money! The government spends and spends and spends. They really ought to get someone with Scrooge-like tendencies to watch the purse strings. This is, by far, one of the most ridiculous waste of money I've ever seen.
Think of what they could have done with it instead --but no -- they go around investigating something that isn't even a crime anyway. It makes no sense.
In case you haven't figured it out by now....I am a bit of a cheapskate when it comes to business expenditures. I always find a way to stretch a dollar.
I wonder who actually holds them accountable for what they use the money for? If they don't have someone to oversee spending --- stupid things like this are going to keep happening.
--Debutante
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Post by faskew on Aug 15, 2018 9:11:37 GMT -5
>There isn't a law regarding "collusion" in the first place. ---Absolutely true. But that’s not what the investigation is about. It’s about (1) Russia messing with our elections in 2016 and today and (2) Americans who were being paid or duped by Russia in 2016 to influence our elections.
> And the dude with questionable money problems -- that subject really didn't have anything to do with the inquiry in the first place. ---Some of the things they’ve found have indeed been incidental. The investigation can only prosecute Federal election crimes, so they’ve turned over lots of stuff they found to local law enforcement for prosecution. But they did find something like 17-18 major criminals who worked for Trump as part of his campaign staff or as appointees after his election. Many of those people were taking money from Russian sources, laundering illegal money for the campaign, and otherwise violating campaign finance laws, and that’s what they’re concentrating on. What they’ve found so far has been worth the money and effort. We certainly don't want these people in high political positions and Trump seems incapable of spotting them by himself.
---So here’s the thing. No president in history has ever had so many proven criminals working for him. For a man who claims to be a great judge of character, he seems to have been easily fooled over and over. (This assumes that he really didn’t know anything about what his underlings were up to.) And that doesn’t count the many non-criminals who have turned on Trump and stopped working for him or who he has fired. He is on record as praising them all, up until they’re gone, then he rants about how terrible they were. But he didn’t see any bad in them when he hired them, and he praised them up until the day they left. Pretty scary.
>I am a bit of a cheapskate when it comes to business expenditures. ---Me too. I wish you were in charge of the Republican Party’s financial plans. For years we heard constant complaints about Obama and how the rising national debt was going to destroy the nation. But now that the Reps control the spending, debt has no meaning. Borrow another trillion dollars for silly stuff? Sure, we’ll blame the Democrats for it somehow. 8-<
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