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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 2:14:55 GMT -5
Have Homosapiens become so successful on this planet that they are ripe for extinction? Overpopulation, hatred for others that are different from each other, having exploited other countries for their resources, etc.? Killing off other species on the planet? Are we humans even worth it? And should we be?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 12:34:07 GMT -5
I think that depends on whether we are, at least in theory, capable of surviving and thriving on this planet without exploiting and destroying other species as a matter of course.
And if we can't live without destroying everything around us, then I fear that eventually, the problem will likely solve itself anyway - human civilization as we know it surviving for another millenium looks like a crapshoot at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 13:45:01 GMT -5
Well, just going by the way people treat each other on forums, I'm thinking that another millennium is way too optimistic. I mean, really, homosapiens have survived mostly by killing off other humanoids, and we're still trying to kill off each other. Nastiest creatures that roam the planet. Good riddance is my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 18:11:23 GMT -5
I think the internet in many ways brings out the worst in us because we don't see any real consequences to our actions there. We don't notice when we went too far and hurt others, and we don't see the harm we cause in others.
It's all so very detached from face-to-face communication - and even there we can misread or hurt one another whether we mean to or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 23:53:27 GMT -5
I think the internet in many ways brings out the worst in us because we don't see any real consequences to our actions there. We don't notice when we went too far and hurt others, and we don't see the harm we cause in others. It's all so very detached from face-to-face communication - and even there we can misread or hurt one another whether we mean to or not. That is very true. I try to remind myself that it has an upside too. We learn so much about the rest of the world and people. The downside is that learning about people make some people decide to hate them. Maybe it's me that is too much seeing the downside because shouldn't learning more about the world and others make us more understanding and awed about everything? Sometimes it' works that way and sometimes not. So in the end, the way I see it, it all equals out in the wash and nothing every really changes.
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Post by faskew on Jun 23, 2018 7:58:30 GMT -5
Lily - nature is pretty grim, "red in tooth and claw". Many animals begin to eat their prey before it's dead. And we all have parasites on us and inside us.
Humans are hard-wired to help those we share genes with and to hurt those we don't. The same person can be kind and self-sacrificing to one group of people and vicious and deadly to another. The main difference between today and the past is that we keep developing better weapons, so that it's easier to kill others. But mostly we don't.
Consider this - put 10,000 random dogs in a football stadium. Come back a few hours later and most of them would be dead or wounded. Put 10,000 humans in a football stadium for several hours and there's a good chance that not a single one will be killed. Humans are actually pretty peaceful compared to most predator species.
Yes, there are too many of us and too many live in crowded, unsanitary conditions. Which means that we're ripe for a culling. Any year now there's a good chance that a virus will sweep through the world and kill off a large percentage of us. As usual, mostly in the poorest nations, which already face such things daily.
The good news is that we don't really need all 9 billion or so of us. A disease that wiped out 8 billion would disrupt society and collapse civilization as we know it, but there would still be plenty of people to carry on. All we need is a few thousand clustered together in various spots, and the species will survive. We're like cockroaches in many ways - we can live almost anywhere and can eat almost anything. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 11:28:28 GMT -5
Yes, there are too many of us and too many live in crowded, unsanitary conditions. Which means that we're ripe for a culling. Any year now there's a good chance that a virus will sweep through the world and kill off a large percentage of us. As usual, mostly in the poorest nations, which already face such things daily. That's not a numbers problem, or at least not a problem in total numbers, it's thr problem that the smaller numbers don't want to give up their space and their wealth for the benefits of the greater numbers.
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Post by raybar on Jun 23, 2018 12:59:19 GMT -5
smaller numbers don't want to give up their space and their wealth for the benefits of the greater numbers. So those of us who started with nothing (I started with an education and substantial debt) should give away what we earned by working our asses off for 40 years?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 13:47:39 GMT -5
smaller numbers don't want to give up their space and their wealth for the benefits of the greater numbers. So those of us who started with nothing (I started with an education and substantial debt) should give away what we earned by working our asses off for 40 years? Plenty of people have started with less than you have. Plenty of people have worked their asses off for 40 years and received a lot less than you did.
Should they receive the same things you did? More? Less? Who is going to give it to them?
But your response illustrates pretty well what the barriers to ending world poverty are, on a very personal level.
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Post by raybar on Jun 23, 2018 14:39:05 GMT -5
On a very personal level, I don't know what we (Molly and I) can do beyond the donations of money, goods, and labor we make to charitable organizations here in Los Angeles. And our taxes help support welfare and other public assistance programs as well.
On a slightly less personal level, I support and have voted for (more taxes) programs and facilities to help the large number of homeless people in the area.
On the world poverty level, I would like the U.S. to spend a little less on the military and a lot more on helping people get out of poverty. How many small businesses could be started for the price of one fighter jet per year?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 14:50:58 GMT -5
Lily - nature is pretty grim, "red in tooth and claw". Many animals begin to eat their prey before it's dead. And we all have parasites on us and inside us. Humans are hard-wired to help those we share genes with and to hurt those we don't. The same person can be kind and self-sacrificing to one group of people and vicious and deadly to another. The main difference between today and the past is that we keep developing better weapons, so that it's easier to kill others. But mostly we don't. Consider this - put 10,000 random dogs in a football stadium. Come back a few hours later and most of them would be dead or wounded. Put 10,000 humans in a football stadium for several hours and there's a good chance that not a single one will be killed. Humans are actually pretty peaceful compared to most predator species. Yes, there are too many of us and too many live in crowded, unsanitary conditions. Which means that we're ripe for a culling. Any year now there's a good chance that a virus will sweep through the world and kill off a large percentage of us. As usual, mostly in the poorest nations, which already face such things daily. The good news is that we don't really need all 9 billion or so of us. A disease that wiped out 8 billion would disrupt society and collapse civilization as we know it, but there would still be plenty of people to carry on. All we need is a few thousand clustered together in various spots, and the species will survive. We're like cockroaches in many ways - we can live almost anywhere and can eat almost anything. LOL That's the point--the selfish gene which is going to guarantee the end of the human race. And frankly, not soon enough.
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joan
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Post by joan on Jun 23, 2018 15:28:34 GMT -5
"Nastiest creatures that roam the planet. Good riddance is my opinion."
"....the selfish gene which is going to guarantee the end of the human race. And frankly, not soon enough."
Nope. Can't relate to your attitude at all. A nasty creature could be defined as one who would wish for this. Don't see you as nasty, but as sensitive and compassionate. Never thought of you as a nihilist or evangelical Christian. Yet, your comments are as hateful as those you condemn. For your sake, I hope you don't really feel this way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 15:38:17 GMT -5
Oh, I do feel this way. Especially when I see the stories about how other creatures on the earth that evolved just the same as humans are being cruelly hunted and eviscerated by homosapiens and their natural habitations taken over by same. Enough is enough. And definitely not evangelical thoughts. To evangelicals humans are the highest form of life. What a joke.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 15:55:13 GMT -5
On a very personal level, I don't know what we (Molly and I) can do beyond the donations of money, goods, and labor we make to charitable organizations here in Los Angeles. And our taxes help support welfare and other public assistance programs as well. On a slightly less personal level, I support and have voted for (more taxes) programs and facilities to help the large number of homeless people in the area. On the world poverty level, I would like the U.S. to spend a little less on the military and a lot more on helping people get out of poverty. How many small businesses could be started for the price of one fighter jet per year? I know what you're saying, and I'm not saying the way the Joan is suggesting that I think that there is no concern or compassion in many people. However, even "good" humans can't help what humans are going to the planet and to each other. Just too many of us. Okay, yes, Fred says that something like a devastating plague could kill off a few billion, but that wouldn't help either, but cause more suffering instead. My question is "what's the point"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 18:52:33 GMT -5
Nobody is going to solve the world's problems all by themselves, so you shouldn't beat yourself up because of that.
Not sure if it's going to work for you, but when my mood gets especially dark and apathetic I try to stay off the 'net and avoid the news for a few days. That usually helps me stay reasonably sane and positive.
Getting together with people (be it in my job or outside of it) that can give me something positive also helps immensely. It feels like I've accomplished something even if it wasn't really all that important in the big picture.
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Post by faskew on Jun 24, 2018 7:30:58 GMT -5
Some people are indeed nasty. But most aren't. In any case, I can't think of anything short of a hit by a major asteroid that would completely wipe out all humans. The way winds and currents work, nukes used in the north would not do all that much to people south of the equator. A bad virus might spread all over the world, but genetic variation makes it likely that at least some people would be immune. All it would take would be a million or so survivors clumped together in groups of a few hundred here and there out of our 8-9 billion to carry on.
I'm more kind. I don't consider that most people are evil and nasty, just ignorant. They do bad things because they don't know any better. And there are some pretty nasty animals out there, too. Life has one imperative - to make more of the same kind of critters. Imagine how many countless creatures are eaten alive every day - from bacteria to bugs to fish to rabbits to deer to even humans. Every day. My favorite song in the old Robin Williams "Popeye" movie was "Everything is Food." Everything alive is food for something. And everything alive has to kill to stay alive. That's the way life works.
I'm wondering why you're so angry with humans. Yeah, lots of bad stuff goes is done by us. But lots of good, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 15:44:59 GMT -5
I think the internet in many ways brings out the worst in us because we don't see any real consequences to our actions there. We don't notice when we went too far and hurt others, and we don't see the harm we cause in others. It's all so very detached from face-to-face communication - and even there we can misread or hurt one another whether we mean to or not. True.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 15:46:29 GMT -5
The good news is that we don't really need all 9 billion or so of us. Who volunteers to tell the other 8 billion they need to leave town?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 15:53:38 GMT -5
Some people are indeed nasty. But most aren't. They do bad things because they don't know any better. Everything alive is food for something. And everything alive has to kill to stay alive. That's the way life works. I'm wondering why you're so angry with humans.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 15:58:05 GMT -5
Nobody is going to solve the world's problems all by themselves, so you shouldn't beat yourself up because of that. Not sure if it's going to work for you, but when my mood gets especially dark and apathetic I try to stay off the 'net and avoid the news for a few days. That usually helps me stay reasonably sane and positive. Getting together with people (be it in my job or outside of it) that can give me something positive also helps immensely. It feels like I've accomplished something even if it wasn't really all that important in the big picture. But I'm not feeling dark and apathetic. Just being real. And you're fortunate to feel the way that you do. It reflects well on who you are.
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