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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 1:19:33 GMT -5
What's to stop any predator - thief, rapist, serial killer - forcing their way into any house and victimizing the occupants? Only one thing: the knowledge that the occupants might be armed. Clearly. I mean it's common knowledge that Europe has been taken over by roving bands of home invaders right?
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 1, 2014 2:08:06 GMT -5
Yes, it's true that the US leads the world when it comes to criminal predators of one kind or another. That has a lot to do with the size of the country, I think, and the culture of "mind your own business" anonymity that goes with it. In Europe, urban communities tend to be more tightly knit, physically if not socially. But having said that, there are far more gun owners in Europe than most people think. The majority of homes in France, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland have a gun, and in rural areas of Europe, where people are vulnerable to intruders, almost every home has a gun. In some European countries, as I'm sure you know, military service is, or was, compulsory, and many people keep their service revolver when they leave the army. The rules of gun ownership are more strict than they are in the US, of course, and I think people tend to be more discreet about owning a gun. Americans want to show you their guns. However, it is true that gun ownership in the UK is very low in comparison with most other countries, yet home invasion crimes are no more prevalent than they are in the US. But again I think this has to do with the cultural differences between the two countries, and in particular with the climate of social cohesion and sense of community in the UK as opposed to the climate of social disconnectedness that predominates in the US. Brits are far more likely to intervene than Americans when they witness crimes being committed, for example, and more likely to report strangers to the police. There is also the fact that in Europe, living space - and space in general - has always been more scarce than it has in the US, which has resulted in people living "on top of each other", for example in terraced houses and in blocks of flats. The fact remains that you are infinitely safer (from home invasion crime) if you own a gun.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 14:03:09 GMT -5
However, it is true that gun ownership in the UK is very low in comparison with most other countries, yet home invasion crimes are no more prevalent than they are in the US. But again I think this has to do with the cultural differences between the two countries, and in particular with the climate of social cohesion and sense of community in the UK as opposed to the climate of social disconnectedness that predominates in the US. Brits are far more likely to intervene than Americans when they witness crimes being committed, for example, and more likely to report strangers to the police. I'm glad to see you are backpedalling from your initial, obviously ridiculous, claim. Conveniently, there is no reliable way to measure vague terms like "social cohesion" so there's no way to prove whether your new claim is correct or not. The fact remains that this is a load of rubbish, as is usual when you're fervently convinced of something being "fact".
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 2, 2014 14:27:30 GMT -5
I stand by what I said 100%. And actually I considered mentioning the anomalous fact myself that home invasion crime was low in Britain despite there being a low percentage of households with guns, but my post was already too lengthy. But as I said, urban areas in the UK tend to be tightly knit, and Brits are notoriously nosey. Most remote homes are in rural areas, especially on farms. And most of these homes do have a gun. Well, if you really believe that you're just as safe not having a gun if intruders target your house, I would have to say that you're in a world of your own. With the fairies. People are robbed, raped, beaten up, stabbed and terrorized every day in their own home. People who aren't armed, that is. No-one attempts to rob, rape, beat up, stab or terrorize someone who's pointing a loaded .45 or a shotgun at them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 14:36:01 GMT -5
Well, if you really believe that you're just as safe not having a gun if intruders target your house, I would have to say that you're in a world of your own. With the fairies. And the psychic superpowers.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 2, 2014 15:06:34 GMT -5
You made a statement that's patently ridiculous - ie, that having a gun doesn't make you any safer in your home. So some criminal predator types comes in through your bedroom window in the middle of the night. Are you safer if
A You have a gun B You don't have a gun
?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 15:34:24 GMT -5
Dammit! And I was going to sit it out today.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 13:04:12 GMT -5
You made a statement that's patently ridiculous - ie, that having a gun doesn't make you any safer in your home. So some criminal predator types comes in through your bedroom window in the middle of the night. Are you safer if A You have a gun B You don't have a gun ? You tell me, Senor Zakkamole. Does engaging in a shoot out with an armed intruder make you safer or less safe? If you fumble around with a gun and manage to shoot yourself in the foot, was that an increase or decrease of personal safety? Does sleeping with a loaded shotgun under your pillow increase or decrease the risk of accidentially shooting yourself or your loved ones? Let's say you do what you're supposed to and keep your gun locked away, out of the reach of little children. Does the fact that you own a gun make you safer?
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Post by raybar on Jun 3, 2014 14:22:19 GMT -5
People argue this endlessly here. The pro side has lots of stories about people successfully defending themselves, and the con side has lots of stories about people trying unsuccessfully trying to defend themselves. The one thing that's clear is that if you are going to defend yourself with a gun (or any kind of weapon) you had better know what you're doing.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 3, 2014 14:42:07 GMT -5
More safe. By a mile. If your intruder has a gun and you don't, your prospects of survival are pretty bleak. In a shoot-out, the odds would be heavily in your favour, since it's your house and you're familiar with the layout, and the advantage is always with the person inside a house (or a room). That's just silly. Most people who own a gun know how to use it. In some states/countries they are required to take lessons before they qualify for a license. It goes without saying that you shouldn't own a gun unless you know how to use it. Only an idiot shoots himself in the foot ; )
More silliness. No one in his or her right mind would sleep with a loaded shotgun under their pillow. It's very easy to have a gun within reach without having it under your pillow. In my case I don't use pillows any way, but even if I did I certainly wouldn't keep my gun under it.
A gun that's locked away is only useful if you know that somebody is trying to gain access to your property. For example if your dog is barking, or you hear someone trying to open a door, or whatever. In other words it's to prevent intruders from gaining entry, and it is highly effective in those circumstances. Many a would-be intruder has been sent packing by a warning blast from a shotgun. Most people who own a gun for personal protection keep it within easy reach. I keep a loaded gun beside my bed, within arm's reach. If anyone is foolish enough to break into my house when I'm in bed - which, incidentally, happened twice in my life - that gun is going to be in my hand faster than you can say "have a nice day".
You're always a thousand times safer with a gun than without one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 15:29:58 GMT -5
So you really believe that increasing the amount of bullets flying, ricocheting, hitting stuff makes an environment safer? Tell me Zak, how many times have you shot a gun? And how many times have you been in an actual firefight? So in all the times where you've practiced target shooting (you do practice target shooting, don't you?) you've never accidentially hit something you weren't supposed to hit?Never had an accidential discharge? Never loaded your gun when you didn't mean to? If you didn't, then that's probably your psychic superpowers. Because even people who have had training with guns do occasionally make mistakes, believe it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 15:31:07 GMT -5
I keep a loaded gun beside my bed, within arm's reach. Let me guess, you don't have kids.
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Post by Roger (over and out) on Jun 3, 2014 15:40:42 GMT -5
No. I used to, but I shot them.
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