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Post by rmarks1 on May 24, 2014 22:28:35 GMT -5
I'd like to ask of question to you, Bob. Okay, you say that the very rich are deserved of this very high income, of a high, high percentage of the workers under them. And we're not talking about Bill Gates and the like, okay? We talking about CEOs. Do you see any problem as to why the very rich's wages can't be lowered a bit more so that those under them can be paid somewhat better? You do realize that over the years the wage discreptacy has been widen by a huge, huge amount between the riches CEO's and the mddle class. So what do you say? Why limit your question to CEO's? How about major sports figures? Many of them make millions of dollars for playing a game, while plenty of hard working people are just getting by. Is that "fair?" Many talented classical musicians struggle to earn a living while some new rock group makes a fortune with tasteless songs. Is that "fair?" How about a novelist who writes junk and has a best seller while talented writers get nothing but rejection letters? The answer is yes, it is fair. People choose to spend their money watching sports and great players draw crowds. People choose to buy the cheap music and novels. And company boards choose to pay big bucks for CEO's. It's their money. They pay market rates. It's the market that determines how much sports figures, novelists, musicians, and CEO"s get paid. Every attempt to interfere in the market results in worse problems. So yes, I do see a problem with lowering CEO wages. The problem is: Who is going to do it? How are they going to do it? Pass a law? What would the law say? What are the specifics? Would it just limit the amount a CEO makes? How would they get that money to the workers under the CEO? It would be very easy for me Lily to tell you that sure, the other workers should make more. But how would I know how much more? How would I even begin to decide that? As a matter of fact, how would anyone decide that? And if someone else decides that, would that mean they are running the company? This is the real problem as I see it. What criteria should be used? Just as important, who is going to set the rules?As for that income gap, please tell me what the problem is? Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have more money than I can ever hope to have. Why should anyone be upset by that? Isn't that just envy? Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 0:07:01 GMT -5
Because that's what I asked and what I want you to answer. If it's too embarrasssing or difficult to answer, then just say so. Don't go turning my question into what you would rather answer. Okay?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 0:25:04 GMT -5
I have to add something, because when you answer the way you have, it makes me feel bad from my heart and soul, because I already have bad feelings about how human beings can be so cold and how they suffer. And when you post the way you do, it just mkes me so upset I just want to forget FACTS and never want to come back again being that you are here and an present your ideas which I feel are selfish beyond anything being you yourself are a part of the human race. I can't understand it and I never will. It hurts me personally, whiich I so wish it woudn't. I try for it not to happen, but I can't help it.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 0:28:05 GMT -5
Because that's what I asked and what I want you to answer. If it's too embarrasssing or difficult to answer, then just say so. Don't go turning my question into what you would rather answer. Okay? Very well. No I don't think money should be taken from CEO's and given to other employees for two reasons. 1) Who's going to do it? Wouldn't whoever does it end up running the company? 2) What criteria would they use? How much would they take? How would they know? Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 0:32:38 GMT -5
I have to add something, because when you answer the way you have, it makes me feel bad from my heart and soul, because I already have bad feelings about how human beings can be so cold and how they suffer. And when you post the way you do, it just mkes me so upset I just want to forget FACTS and never want to come back again being that you are here and an present your ideas which I feel are selfish beyond anything being you yourself are a part of the human race. I can't understand it and I never will. It hurts me personally, whiich I so wish it woudn't. I try for it not to happen, but I can't help it. I'm sorry you feel bad Lily, but who exactly is being hurt by that wide income gap? How are they being hurt? A homeless person in the street is suffering. That I see. But how is someone with a job suffering just because their boss earns more? Could you explain that to me. Really. I'm being serious because I just don't see it. And how is not believing that an income gap is bad make me "selfish?" What exactly am I taking for myself by not seeing that? If I am not taking anything for myself, how does that make me selfish? Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 8:09:29 GMT -5
2.88 out of 60. That's not a whole lot, considering that more than 10 out of these 60 have been born there. Huh? 60 out of 60 were born there. 2.88 million reached the top! Most of the rest also moved up. Again this is according to your own data. 20 out of 60 come from families that were already at that level of wealth. Only less than 3 out of 60 came from poor families. And those few poor people who reached the top are a tiny fraction compared to those who never managed to lift themselves out of poverty. I guess according to your argument that must mean that more than 40% of poor people are lazy.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 8:10:34 GMT -5
Because that's what I asked and what I want you to answer. If it's too embarrasssing or difficult to answer, then just say so. Don't go turning my question into what you would rather answer. Okay? Very well. No I don't think money should be taken from CEO's and given to other employees for two reasons. 1) Who's going to do it? Wouldn't whoever does it end up running the company? 2) What criteria would they use? How much would they take? How would they know? Bob But you don't have a problem with CEOs taking their employees' money and adding it to their own.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 11:06:27 GMT -5
Huh? 60 out of 60 were born there. 2.88 million reached the top! Most of the rest also moved up. Again this is according to your own data. 20 out of 60 come from families that were already at that level of wealth. Only less than 3 out of 60 came from poor families. And those few poor people who reached the top are a tiny fraction compared to those who never managed to lift themselves out of poverty. And this proves...? What exactly? Of course not. It's more difficult to go from the bottom to the top. What you ignore is that many of the rest also improved their financial state. This is according again to the figures that you posted. You seem to think that unless all of the poor become rich that some sort of disaster has occurred. What you forget is that even if this were the case, there would still be a top fifth and a bottom fifth. What you should be asking is how badly off is that bottom fifth. www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/09/21/the-correct-us-poverty-rate-is-around-and-about-zero/Here is a European paper which states that poverty in the USA is overstated: www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdfBob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 11:07:41 GMT -5
Very well. No I don't think money should be taken from CEO's and given to other employees for two reasons. 1) Who's going to do it? Wouldn't whoever does it end up running the company? 2) What criteria would they use? How much would they take? How would they know? Bob But you don't have a problem with CEOs taking their employees' money and adding it to their own. Where did that happen? Please give supporting links. Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 11:18:01 GMT -5
Bob!!! I never said anything about taking away anything from the CEO. What I'm saying and what you are purposely misunderstanding is paying the employees a fair wage to begin with. Why should the majority of the profits go only to the top? ? IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 11:21:05 GMT -5
Bob!!! I never said anything about taking away anything from the CEO. What I'm saying and what you are purposely misunderstanding is paying the employees a fair wage to begin with. Why should the majority of the profits go only to the top? ? IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! But Lily, you haven't said how much a fair wage is. How much is it? And how would you determine that? Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 11:37:28 GMT -5
Whatever you think it is and multiply that by 100. I'm not saying your're cheap, mind you. I'm not saying that at all. I'm only thinking it.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 11:46:19 GMT -5
Whatever you think it is and multiply that by 100. I'm not saying your're cheap, mind you. I'm not saying that at all. I'm only thinking it. Okay, funny joke. Now what do you consider to be a fair wage and how would you determine that? Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 13:35:53 GMT -5
Let me ask you this, Bob. How is it you're able to say what are fair wages for CEO's and other top guys, but you don't know what is fair wages for the average worker? Why, Bob? Why?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 14:00:34 GMT -5
...and (not to allow you to avoid the previous post) why do you think there's a minimum wage law? Oh, but you probably don't agree with that, either. And why do you think the minimum wage should go up with inflation? Which it hasn't gone up inia very long time and doesn't keep up with inflation. But, besides that, wouldn't you think that wages should be based on cost of living--at the very least? And don't you think that top executives who make 400% of what the average worker in that same company make, should share in some of those great profits?
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 17:30:57 GMT -5
Let me ask you this, Bob. How is it you're able to say what are fair wages for CEO's and other top guys, but you don't know what is fair wages for the average worker? Why, Bob? Why? I don't know what fair wages for CEO's are either and I never claimed otherwise. Bob
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Post by Roger (over and out) on May 25, 2014 17:46:46 GMT -5
where I come from, CEOs decide how much to pay themselves. I know I do : )
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 17:48:29 GMT -5
20 out of 60 come from families that were already at that level of wealth. Only less than 3 out of 60 came from poor families. And those few poor people who reached the top are a tiny fraction compared to those who never managed to lift themselves out of poverty. And this proves...? What exactly? It proves that family wealth is a major factor for determining whether people become wealthy or not, something which you have been denying. No, I think that there is no need to perpetuate sayings that are blatantly untrue, such as your claim that hard work makes you wealthy, which is completely bogus when we look at what actually makes you wealthy.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 17:49:28 GMT -5
Let me ask you this, Bob. How is it you're able to say what are fair wages for CEO's and other top guys, but you don't know what is fair wages for the average worker? Why, Bob? Why? I don't know what fair wages for CEO's are either and I never claimed otherwise. Bob For a CEO, a fair wage = as much as they can get away with.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 17:53:36 GMT -5
...and (not to allow you to avoid the previous post) why do you think there's a minimum wage law? Minimum wage laws were originally passed for racist reasons. Take a look: That's right. I don't agree with that. Minimum wage laws reduce the number of jobs available. Where is the inflation coming from Lily? It comes from deliberate government policies such as keeing interest rates at a historical low point and buying $75 billion of bundled mortgages a month. Where is the FED getting $75 billion a month? It creates it and this inflates the economy. Not at all. Wages are set by the market. If employers don't offer enough money, people won't take the jobs. But what if someone is "forced" to take a job because they are desperate? That happened to me once. I left at the first opportunity, which was after a year and a half. First of all Lily, what makes you think they are not worth it? Secondly, please do the math. Let's say a company has 1,000 employees. The boss makes $5 million a year. How much of that money do you think the boss should give up? Let's say the boss gives up ALL of his salary. That's $5 million a year to be decided up among the rest of the employees. That's less than $100 per week per person. Not very much in this day and age, is it? And that's if the boss gives up everything. Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 17:58:51 GMT -5
And this proves...? What exactly? It proves that family wealth is a major factor for determining whether people become wealthy or not, something which you have been denying. But I never denied that. Find a quote where I did. I didn't. My whole point is that hard work is a major factor in becoming wealthy, something which you did deny. I never said that either! All I said was that it was a major factor. It would help this discussion immensely if cut and past some of my actual quotes. That way you wouldn't have to make up what you imagined I said. Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 17:59:14 GMT -5
100$ per week is "not much"? Are you serious?
That's about 1/5th of what many people I know make, before taxes.
Heck, 100$ per week would pay my share of this month's rent!
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 18:00:33 GMT -5
I don't know what fair wages for CEO's are either and I never claimed otherwise. Bob For a CEO, a fair wage = as much as they can get away with. And if you were interviewing for a job, you wouldn't try to get as much salary as you can get away with? Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 18:02:08 GMT -5
100 dollars per week is "not much"? Are you serious? 100$ per week would pay my share of this month's rent! Not in New York it wouldn't. In this town, it wouldn't buy you a week's supply of food. Bob
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 18:02:47 GMT -5
For a CEO, a fair wage = as much as they can get away with. And if you were interviewing for a job, you wouldn't try to get as much salary as you can get away with? Bob Unfortunately, most of us won't have the benefit of getting high-paying jobs from close friends and family members.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 18:04:28 GMT -5
But how is someone with a job suffering just because their boss earns more? Why don't you explain us first why their boss is suffering if he earns less?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 18:08:16 GMT -5
It proves that family wealth is a major factor for determining whether people become wealthy or not, something which you have been denying. But I never denied that. Find a quote where I did. I didn't. My whole point is that hard work is a major factor in becoming wealthy, something which you did deny. And so far I've seen no evidence that it is. Whereas we know for a fact that education, family wealth, and social status are.
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 18:10:05 GMT -5
And if you were interviewing for a job, you wouldn't try to get as much salary as you can get away with? Bob Unfortunately, most of us won't have the benefit of getting high-paying jobs from close friends and family members. But you would still try to get as much as you could, wouldn't you? And candidates for a CEO's job don't exactly go to the interview right out of school. Most of them have put in years of work and have records of accomplishment, records that include (wait for it) plenty of hard work. Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 18:11:11 GMT -5
But how is someone with a job suffering just because their boss earns more? Why don't you explain us first why their boss is suffering if he earns less? Most people suffer if their income goes down. Wouldn't you? Bob
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Post by rmarks1 on May 25, 2014 18:18:14 GMT -5
But I never denied that. Find a quote where I did. I didn't. My whole point is that hard work is a major factor in becoming wealthy, something which you did deny. And so far I've seen no evidence that it is. Then you haven't looked. What you are saying is that the links I posted showing that doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, and accountants work much longer than a 40 hour week. So far you haven't refuted even one of those links. LOL! According to the data you posted,there are plenty of people from lower income groups that rise to higher levels. Some even reach the top tier. Are you claiming that hard work played no part in the success of these people? Are you ignoring your own data? Or are you merely cherry-picking? Bob
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